pg130 On the remote chance that he was released from prison, the US Secret Service was to be notified due to threats toward their protectees. Manson was considered a threat to the President of the United States.
pg5 He was particularly imbued with the idea that some people can place their thoughts into the minds of others and control their behavior, and he felt he was a victim of this phenomenon, and ironically denied taking any part in the Tate-LaBianca murders. ... He was viewed as manipulative, crafty, and seductive, with a good grasp of human motivation.
pg16 Reality distortions(exhibited by Manson) include a variety of hallucinations and delusions, including odd and unrealistic beliefs like thought insertions, mind reading, and thought broadcasting.
Is Charlie claiming to be the victim of mind control? It sure sounds like it.
Starviego, to your first comment, I think the assassination attempt that Lynette was convicted of likely triggered a blanket caution for any subsequent president. I don't recall any specific threat to a president that Manson may have made but we don't know what he may have said when speaking to those of authority.
Confessions of an ex-Secret Service Agent: The Marty Venker Story by George Rush c.1988 pg112
"Back in 1970, when I was working in Los Angeles, I used to climb the steps of the Federal Building and pass a woman who'd carved X's into her forehead. She was holding a vigil for Charles Manson, who was standing trial inside for the murder of actress Sharon Tate and eight others. Even before the murders, Manson's hatred of Richard Nixon had earned him a Secret Service interrogation. The woman on the steps was Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme. Squeaky and I developed a relationship. She called me a pig and I'd tell here to stick it up her ass."
Starviego, to your second comment, Manson was known to play up his personality to those who were evaluating him, whether it was someone from the prison or perhaps the press. By the time this evaluation was conducted people like Maury Terry and Mae Brussels had presented their views which included conspiracy theories that had to do with mind control. I have no doubt that Manson was aware of what was being said. He may have even had an opportunity to listen to some of Brussles radio shows. Most likely he was playing to his audience and making himself look a bit crazier than he had demonstrated in the past. There's a raw video of the Diane Sawyer interview where Manson and Sawyer are speaking calmly to each other about everyday things. The second someone in the background says they are live, Manson goes full on batshit nuts. It's like someone flipped a switch. I'm sure it was a calculated move. I think it would be a losing battle for a psychiatrist to get an honest evaluation of Manson because he just liked to mess with people he didn't have respect for.
DebS said …Manson was known to play up his personality to those who were evaluating him, whether it was someone from the prison or perhaps the press.
Yeah. It always surprises me how much this gets overlooked. Most people unquestioningly take his performances at face value.
By the time this evaluation was conducted people like Maury Terry and Mae Brussels had presented their views which included conspiracy theories that had to do with mind control. I have no doubt that Manson was aware of what was being said. He may have even had an opportunity to listen to some of Brussles radio shows. Most likely he was playing to his audience and making himself look a bit crazier than he had demonstrated in the past. There's a raw video of the Diane Sawyer interview where Manson and Sawyer are speaking calmly to each other about everyday things. The second someone in the background says they are live, Manson goes full on batshit nuts. It's like someone flipped a switch. I'm sure it was a calculated move.
Once the cameras were rolling, everything he did and said always struck me as a very choreographed performance… no matter how “crazy”.
I think it would be a losing battle for a psychiatrist to get an honest evaluation of Manson because he just liked to mess with people he didn't have respect for
That’s one of the things that make this paper interesting. It shows the evolution of psych evaluation over the decades and the generational shift in the various biases and attitudes of the shrinks examining him.
In the first instance, there’s the various reports, tests and observations dating from the 50s & 60s. As would be expected, these make all the standard judgements of the time and era regarding a jive-talking petty criminal/beatnik like Manson.
By the 70s evaluations, both Charlie and the expectations of him have evolved a lot. He’s not just another juvenile delinquent anymore. He’s a media archetype …but of what exactly? Hippy cult leader? Deluded psychotic? Psychedelic pimp? Mad dog? No-one’s too sure… least of all Charlie. Meanwhile his jive-talk has developed into full-blown beat-hipster-hippie allegory… AND he’s started to incorporate any random schtick he thinks his audience might be prone to.
The folks examining him are still products of the 50s and 60s (like Charlie)… but they’re his complete diametric opposite- culturally, ethically, legally, economically. They’re the same guys he’s been conning or pissing off his whole life… but he’s not into that anymore. He’s playing into the media archetypes now. So naturally, he’s a full-blown psychotic and it’s off to Vacaville he goes.
By the late ‘90s, Manson’s really honed his crazy Charlie act but the shrinks have changed the guard. Now they’re a bunch of younger people to whom the culture wars of the 60s have little significance. He just doesn’t push their buttons the same way he did with the older analysts… and the new guys seem to be wondering just how delusional he actually is.
The real change however takes place in the 2023 report when the people looking at the records are even further removed from any real attachment to the 60s. Mainstream culture has also moved along. What was stone-freak crazy back then is now fairly mainstream… including allegorical, poetic beatnik gibberish. They’re not really offended, horrified or even shocked by it. No doubt they’ve seen worse on Netflix. Without the attendant cultural baggage, they seem much better able to gauge how much is genuine psychosis and how much is theatre… or at least recognise that both are at play. A lot of people could always see this. It just astonishes me that the shrinks never seemed to.
9 comments:
An interesting read. Thanks, Deb. Vaguely worrying that one of the authors (Shrinks? Analysts?) has used O'Neill as a historical source.
pg130
On the remote chance that he was released from prison, the US Secret Service was to be notified due to threats toward their protectees. Manson was considered a threat to the President of the United States.
Which president did Charlie threaten? And when?
pg5
He was particularly imbued with the idea that some people can place their thoughts into the minds of others and control their behavior, and he felt he was a victim of this phenomenon, and ironically denied taking any part in the Tate-LaBianca murders. ... He was viewed as manipulative, crafty, and seductive, with a good grasp of human motivation.
pg16
Reality distortions(exhibited by Manson) include a variety of hallucinations and delusions, including odd and unrealistic beliefs like thought insertions, mind reading, and thought broadcasting.
Is Charlie claiming to be the victim of mind control? It sure sounds like it.
Starviego, to your first comment, I think the assassination attempt that Lynette was convicted of likely triggered a blanket caution for any subsequent president. I don't recall any specific threat to a president that Manson may have made but we don't know what he may have said when speaking to those of authority.
The threats may have been against Nixon:
Confessions of an ex-Secret Service Agent: The Marty Venker Story by George Rush c.1988 pg112
"Back in 1970, when I was working in Los Angeles, I used to climb the steps of the Federal Building and pass a woman who'd carved X's into her forehead. She was holding a vigil for Charles Manson, who was standing trial inside for the murder of actress Sharon Tate and eight others. Even before the murders, Manson's hatred of Richard Nixon had earned him a Secret Service interrogation. The woman on the steps was Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme. Squeaky and I developed a relationship. She called me a pig and I'd tell here to stick it up her ass."
Starviego, to your second comment, Manson was known to play up his personality to those who were evaluating him, whether it was someone from the prison or perhaps the press. By the time this evaluation was conducted people like Maury Terry and Mae Brussels had presented their views which included conspiracy theories that had to do with mind control. I have no doubt that Manson was aware of what was being said. He may have even had an opportunity to listen to some of Brussles radio shows.
Most likely he was playing to his audience and making himself look a bit crazier than he had demonstrated in the past.
There's a raw video of the Diane Sawyer interview where Manson and Sawyer are speaking calmly to each other about everyday things. The second someone in the background says they are live, Manson goes full on batshit nuts. It's like someone flipped a switch. I'm sure it was a calculated move.
I think it would be a losing battle for a psychiatrist to get an honest evaluation of Manson because he just liked to mess with people he didn't have respect for.
I wish I could remember which book said Manson developed a personality that the author called "Crazy Charlie".
DebS said
…Manson was known to play up his personality to those who were evaluating him, whether it was someone from the prison or perhaps the press.
Yeah. It always surprises me how much this gets overlooked. Most people unquestioningly take his performances at face value.
By the time this evaluation was conducted people like Maury Terry and Mae Brussels had presented their views which included conspiracy theories that had to do with mind control. I have no doubt that Manson was aware of what was being said. He may have even had an opportunity to listen to some of Brussles radio shows. Most likely he was playing to his audience and making himself look a bit crazier than he had demonstrated in the past.
There's a raw video of the Diane Sawyer interview where Manson and Sawyer are speaking calmly to each other about everyday things. The second someone in the background says they are live, Manson goes full on batshit nuts. It's like someone flipped a switch. I'm sure it was a calculated move.
Once the cameras were rolling, everything he did and said always struck me as a very choreographed performance… no matter how “crazy”.
I think it would be a losing battle for a psychiatrist to get an honest evaluation of Manson because he just liked to mess with people he didn't have respect for
That’s one of the things that make this paper interesting. It shows the evolution of psych evaluation over the decades and the generational shift in the various biases and attitudes of the shrinks examining him.
In the first instance, there’s the various reports, tests and observations dating from the 50s & 60s. As would be expected, these make all the standard judgements of the time and era regarding a jive-talking petty criminal/beatnik like Manson.
By the 70s evaluations, both Charlie and the expectations of him have evolved a lot. He’s not just another juvenile delinquent anymore. He’s a media archetype …but of what exactly? Hippy cult leader? Deluded psychotic? Psychedelic pimp? Mad dog? No-one’s too sure… least of all Charlie. Meanwhile his jive-talk has developed into full-blown beat-hipster-hippie allegory… AND he’s started to incorporate any random schtick he thinks his audience might be prone to.
The folks examining him are still products of the 50s and 60s (like Charlie)… but they’re his complete diametric opposite- culturally, ethically, legally, economically. They’re the same guys he’s been conning or pissing off his whole life… but he’s not into that anymore. He’s playing into the media archetypes now. So naturally, he’s a full-blown psychotic and it’s off to Vacaville he goes.
By the late ‘90s, Manson’s really honed his crazy Charlie act but the shrinks have changed the guard. Now they’re a bunch of younger people to whom the culture wars of the 60s have little significance. He just doesn’t push their buttons the same way he did with the older analysts… and the new guys seem to be wondering just how delusional he actually is.
The real change however takes place in the 2023 report when the people looking at the records are even further removed from any real attachment to the 60s. Mainstream culture has also moved along. What was stone-freak crazy back then is now fairly mainstream… including allegorical, poetic beatnik gibberish. They’re not really offended, horrified or even shocked by it. No doubt they’ve seen worse on Netflix. Without the attendant cultural baggage, they seem much better able to gauge how much is genuine psychosis and how much is theatre… or at least recognise that both are at play. A lot of people could always see this. It just astonishes me that the shrinks never seemed to.
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