Monday, October 21, 2024

Watchers at Waverly?

 

Were there unknown witnesses to the comings and goings at the LaBianca residence the night of the murders?


 Box 22 vol9015 pg16of130  (Tex Watson trial)


Q: Incidentally, Sergeant(Danny Galindo LAPD), did you make an investigation, either your or other officers under your supervision, make an investigation of the houses on either side of the LaBianca residence?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Was anybody home at the Earle C. Anthony estate? (This is the house that was later turned into a convent and that Katy Perry recently tried to buy.)
A: Not when I went.
Q: Was anybody living there at all at the time?
A: Not officially.
Q: What do you mean by "Not officially," if you can explain?
A: Well, subsequent investigation disclosed that some, oh, trespassers had been within the premises at the Earl C. Anthony estate and had actually slept within the premises. I determined the morning of the 11th that a guard had been assigned but had not been around the premises for a day or two.
Q: I see. Nobody was officially then living at the Earle C. Anthony estate?
A: That's a correct statement.
Q: You did discover at some time later some trespassers had invaded the premises?
A: Yes.
Q: And spent the night there?
A: Several nights.
Q: And when did you discover that fact in connection with the date August 10th?
A: Oh, it would been after I had been relieved from the investigation. ....

                                           Earle C. Anthony estate (renovated LaBianca house on upper right)




Q: Did you also go to the True residence on the other side of the LaBianca residence?
A: Yes, sir, I did. ....
Q: Now, was anybody at that residence?
A: No, sir; not at the time I went.
Q: Did you determine whether anybody had been living at the True residence within the very recent past?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: And what had you determined in that regard?
A: That the residence was populated. ...
Q: Did you determine whether anybody was at the True residence on the evening of August 9nth or the early morning hours of August 10th?

A: Yes, sir. I don't remember the times, but I can recall they had been there--somebody had been at the residence up past through the 9nth and into the 10th.  I don't remember the times.


Anthony, LaBianca, and True estates


 
 
 

 
 

This little tidbit raises some interesting questions:

--Who were these unknown witnesses?  Some squatters looking for some free lodging? 

--Or was the Waverly Dr. house put under surveillance via the two neighboring houses, in the same way the house on Cielo Dr. was supposed to have been watched? 

--Who were the surveillers?  The Mansonoids?  Or the covert operators? 

--Was the Waverly house deliberately selected because the neighboring residences were empty(at least officially), and thus there was little risk of a neighbor seeing/hearing something and calling the police?

--Did somebody deliberately pull the security guard away on that night?  Was he ever interviewed?

--If LAPD Sgt Galindo couldn't remember the 'times,' doesn't that imply that at one point the investigators pinned down the approximate 'times' that these unknown witnesses were there(and maybe even had them identified)?  In other words that a real investigation had been done, but for some reason they kept this part off the record.


Did the cops ever interview this guy?


Part 1 of the taped interview of Harold True by Aaron Stovitz on Jan 27, 1970. 

 
8:50 mark
--True says "an officer was one of our neighbors" (police officer?) lived "right across the street" at Waverly 

[LaBianca had a neighbor in the police department?  That's.... interesting.]
 

Or how about this guy?

No More Tomorrows by Alice LaBianca, c.1990 pg409  Letter from Leno to his daughter Cory, dated April 9, 1969: 
"Not much happening here. No new burglaries, thank goodness! No new clues, either, There has been a plain clothes detective hanging around here occasionally, but I'm beginning to doubt as to whether the 'culprits' will ever be caught."


62 comments:

  1. Thanks Starviego.

    While I can picture and describe the layout of the Tate and LaBianca residences, I can’t really say too much about the former True residence. I believe it was much larger than the LaBianca residence and that there was also a guesthouse present.

    A family with an Armenian sounding name purchased the house formally occupied by True at the tail end of August 1969 and also would purchase and own the LaBianca residence in the early 70’s and own it for a few years.

    While it’s just speculation on my part, I believe it’s highly possible that there may have been two apartments occupied at the former True residence on August 10. I’ve wondered if the Armenian family rented and then bought and if the owner lived in another apartment? But I don’t know. I think the name was something like Berberian.

    Sometimes when you hear screaming it disturbs you. But if it stops within a few minutes you don’t pick up the phone and make a call. A lot of times you forget there was any disturbance at all, especially as days and weeks go by.

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  2. I think you are right, Berberian name rings a bell.

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  3. I spoke with Tom O'Neil a few months back and he had quite a bit of info, although not used in his book. Really interesting yet disturbing so I dropped it. Hopefully someone more objective will pursue. Thank you 👍

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  4. "he had quite a bit of info" Re the Waverly murders? Give us a clue!

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  5. Louise said:
    “ I spoke with Tom O'Neil[l] a few months back”

    Did O’Neill contact you out of the blue or were you interacting somewhere, such as in a blog, which led to the conversation?

    PS - I hope you are well.

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  10. I've studied the LaBianca (and Tate) murders in-depth over the last 40 years and, from all I've read and listened to on the subject, I'm quite certain that Suzan ABSOLUTELY had something to do with them. Dunno exactly if she & Tex conspired together to carry the hit out, but she was 100% "in on it".

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  13. Standing by my above comment until and unless somebody can offer EXTREMELY convincing & persuasive information to the contrary. As far as Tom O'Neill, as many have stated and I agree, the first half of his book was very good but the second half was garbage. And Suzan has been shown to be a highly deceptive and untrustworthy person.

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    1. SixtiesRockRules!I have no convincing or persuasive info to the contrary, just here to learn what's circulating. Thank you for your concern ☮️

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    2. I haven't seen her since the Catholic rosary and memorial service for Leno and Rosemary in August '69.

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    3. Still very sad to me after all these years. I don't know what happened to her, she and her mother were very close. I cannot imagine ☹️

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  14. If there was anyone watching the Waverly house, it was the woman who was friends with Leno and Rosemary. She looked after the dogs when the LaBiancas were away.

    She was questioned rigorously, but I would like to know if she had more to say about the Waverly environment during the 8th, 9th, and 10th of August.

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  16. As a follow up to my previous reply, the woman who looked after the dogs at Waverly was Ruth Sivick.

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  17. Yes. I remember her. She was a partner in Rosemary's dress shop, as I recall.

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  18. Torque said:

    “She was questioned rigorously, but I would like to know if she had more to say about the Waverly environment during the 8th, 9th, and 10th of August.”

    “As a follow up to my previous reply, the woman who looked after the dogs at Waverly was Ruth Sivick.”

    According to her trial testimony she only went to Waverly once that weekend at 6:00 PM on 8-9 to feed 2 of the 3 dogs. She let herself in using a key under the doormat and stayed for 30 minutes. She mentioned that one of the screen door was warped but didn’t mention anything else as being unusual or out of order.

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  19. Roxie Lucarelli was another witness you didn't hear much of. He was a long-time LAPD cop who responded to the Waverly crime scene, and was described as a long-time friend of Leno. So it's natural that Leno would have confided in him with any crime-related trouble Leno was having. Maybe Roxie was the unnamed 'officer' neighbor...

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  20. TorF, thanks. Yes, that is the testimony I was looking for.

    Louise, to be clear, am I to understand from your comment above that you have not seen Susan since the funerals in 1969? Thanks.

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  21. Arguably the most significant aspect at Waverly were the frequent burglaries that took place before August 10th. One feature of which was that the dogs were let outside when they should have been inside. Its almost as if the burglar(s) were trying to leave a bold sign that they were there.

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  22. Yes, Torque. That is correct. The two sides of the blended family were estranged after the murders. It just evolved that way, everyone was arguing over who got what personal property--stuff like that. I only heard about it from my mom and siblings.

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  23. I was 13 at the time so I never went to the house but they all did.

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  24. I'm sure they were all in shock and then to have to go through the moving process--really crazy times. In a way I was fortunate to have to be in school every day 🙄

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  25. Roxie and my dad knew each other all through the years, beginning in junior high or earlier. He actually was one of the first to go to the scene of the crime, which you can imagine must have been horrific for him.

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  26. Then he called my mom, they all knew each other in high school. Sorry to go off on the personal but that's what I do🤔😎

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  27. Torque: ..."the frequent burglaries" at Waverly...

    As far as I can tell, there was only one break-in at Waverly in late March or early April of '69.

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  28. There were several break-ins but I can't recall the exact dates. I believe they started soon after they moved into the house Thanksgiving weekend, '68.

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  29. My stepbrother Frank had alot of things stolen, which were in the back apt. Minibikes, music instruments like a drum set etc. On other occasions they got into the house and stole coins and even blue chip stamps. I've told people this before and they said it was probably just some thieves in the neighborhood but who really knows.

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  30. Lots of people hanging out in Griffith Park in those days 🙄

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  31. Louise, do you have an opinion on why your Dad parked the car and boat trailer on the street after dropping Susan off at her apartment? It has been said by many that it was uncharacteristic for him to do so, and that he would nornally park it up the driveway.

    Personally, as I look at the police photos of the scene, I noticed Rosemary's Thunderbird parked up top. Perhaps Leno thought at the late hour, and being no doubt very tired, why not leave car and trailer in the street overnight. That way, if Rosemary wanted to drive out the next morning, she could do so without having to move Leno's car and trailer. We do know, however, that either she or Leno carried the waterskis up the driveway.

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  32. I was under the impression they stored the boat at my grandmother's house over on Avenel St. Maybe he planned to take it there in the morning.

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  33. Fitzgerald asked Frank Struthers a [leading] question.

    Q: … your house had been entered by people without permission; isn’t that correct?
    A: Yes.
    Q: And that had happened actually on several occasions; right?
    A: Yes.

    Alice LaBianca’s book has Leno writing [daughter] Cory in April that there haven’t been any recent break-ins but in [one of] his last business meetings he says,
    “Mom, we can’t live in that house any longer. We can’t sleep and never know when it will be ransacked again”.

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  34. I'm not sure if he actually said that or if she added that for dramatic effect. The letters to Cory are authentic, though.

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  35. The reason I am not sure if he said that to my grandmother, he didn't like to worry her.

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  36. This is why I stopped promoting my mom's book a year or so ago. As she (Alice LaBianca) explains in the beginning of No More Tomorrows, she fictionalized some parts which ends up being confusing when reading it for specifics. The main intention of her book was more for biographical purposes in a general way. We all (my siblings and I) know this about her book, not everything is "truth" Great photographs throughout, though 🙂

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  37. One more clarification before I go back to my current, relatively normal life! In my dad's letter to Cory, which is authentic, word for word truth, he said there has been a plainclothes detective hanging around occasionally. He actually hired that detective to keep an eye on the place. That is what he told me on one of my last visits there with him. Evidently the guy didn't take the job too seriously, "hanging around occasionally"?
    That's all I know, no idea if he found a detective via Roxie or ?

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  38. Did Leno have a phone conversation with Cory prior to his death telling her not to come to Waverly?

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  39. There was a conversation, yes. We were going to go to Waverly to celebrate his birthday. I was in the room but I didn't hear what he said. According to Cory after she got off the phone, he just told her they were going to Lake Isabella for the weekend and they wouldn't be home until Sunday. She was disappointed.

    That was it as far as I know.

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  40. Evidently, the reason she was disappointed was because earlier in the week he was fine about us coming up but the plans had changed for some reason. No idea why 🙄

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  41. Something about getting the boat of course, beyond that my mom made numerous conjectures after the murders.

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  42. Was an emergency call made?

    Death to Pigs, by Robert Hendrickson, c.2011 pg506
    Bugliosi: "There's a story you heard that someone next door(to Waverly) called the police and I checked that out and couldn't find any evidence of that."

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  43. Starviego said:

    “Roxie Lucarelli was another witness you didn't hear much of.”

    “Maybe Roxie was the unnamed 'officer' neighbor...”

    In the LB Homicide Progress Reports(s), Roxie gave his address as “1460 Bellwood Road, San Marino”, which would be stretching it if you referred to it being in the neighborhood.

    Unless there were two Roxie M. Lucarelli’s working as police officers in LA, Roxie was well known and his name appeared in at least three Dragnet episodes.

    In the early 50’s Roxie was apparently a narcotics officer and took part in a couple of busts that were publicized in the newspapers. In the 3 Dragnet episodes I know of, Friday contacts Roxie Lucarelli of the narcotics division. In one episode they sometimes address him as Luke.

    There are legal cases during the 50’s, such as appeals, that mention “Officer Lucarelli” and one of those cases mention narcotics. An interesting coincidence is that in one case Lucarelli is assisting officers from Oxnard.

    Roxie retired from the police force very young after 25-26 years service around 1-1-72. He died in the late 2010’s [17-19?] and was still receiving his pension. I’m not sure if it he was the horse breeder, but I think he was.

    One angle I’m surprised that conspiracy buffs haven’t written about is how he was the middleman for Leno and Rosemary’s alleged illegal activities. He was an expert on narcotics. Since he was onsite shortly after the LE arrived, as an on duty officer, conspiracy buffs could say he tampered with evidence. But considering that he received a pension for 45+ years, It’s hard to say he was anything but clean.

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  44. starviego said:

    “Was an emergency call made?”

Death to Pigs, by Robert Hendrickson, c.2011 pg506
Bugliosi: "There's a story you heard that someone next door(to Waverly) called the police and I checked that out and couldn't find any evidence of that."

    I don’t have a copy of this book. Who is Bugliosi talking to or replying to? Who is “you heard”?

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  45. That is from Chp.17 of Hendrickson's book, titled:

    Mr. Bugliosi auditions for "MANSON"

    On December 15,1971, the Manson trial prosecutor (Vincent Bugliosi) arrives at Merrick's studio for an interview/audition in order to be considered for an appearance in the Manson movie.
    ....

    Merrick: Why did they go to LaBianca?
    Bugliosi: Well, I don't know the answer to that .. No one know the answer to that.
    Merrick: Because, I have an inside source.
    Bugliosi: What?
    Merrick: I have an inside source.
    Bugliosi: Well, all I can tell you about LaBianca, uh.. Well, you heard my argument.
    Merrick: Yes, but it's different than the argument.
    Bugliosi: He'd, he had been next door.
    Merrick: True's, Harold True's.
    Bugliosi: Yeah, and I... There's a story you heard that someone next door uh, uh, called the police and I checked that out and couldn't find any evidence of that. In the first place....
    Merrick: That's what the Family says.











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  46. Tab, thanks for the extra info on Roxie!

    -----------------------------

    If the people occupying the houses next to the LaBianca house were really some kind of surveillance team, the obvious implication would be that the LaBiancas were being deliberately stalked and targeted. But why them?

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  47. TaborFresca, I am currently working on a little research, not much, but let's just call it a "fact or fiction" approach. I'm really intrigued about learning more about Roxie's background in the narcotics division and Dragnet episodes where his name was mentioned. Do you have any idea when those were? I'm going to try and find them on IMDB but looks like there were 256+ episodes so it may be a futile search. Thank you in advance 🙂

    And, yes, you are correct that Roxie was a horse breeder and trainer. He had a ranch in the San Jacinto/Hemet area but I don't recall the name.

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  48. This is just my opinion but whoever said that Roxie may have tampered with evidence at the crime scene is way off base. He was horrified even going into the house and seeing his lifelong friend murdered.

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  49. TaborFresca, I found a couple of the Dragnet scripts online with Roxie so I will just read them instead of trying to find the TV version 😎

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  50. I'm not sure how many people here follow cielodrive site but I hope some have read the 1987 article about my sister Cory's thesis. It is an interesting insight to our pov over the years. Thank you all for your diligent investigations and research. I think it would be great if someone could finally put all the pieces together, hopefully not too much longer 🙄

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  51. The article was originally published in a small regional newspaper so apparently that explains why they reported the murders happened in Orange California? The rest of the article is accurate.

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  52. Test. Unable to get a post to stick to this thread.

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  53. Having trouble pasting info on Roxie. Will try pieces.

    Sometimes named Roxie, Roxy, Rocky, or officer Lucarelli . Has a colleague named Broadhurst.

    Dragnet episode appeared on radio and TV and may have reused titles.

    Roxie’s character appears in: The Big Thief, The Big Cad, The Big Key, The Big Gun, The Big Wish, The Big Trunk, The Big Set Up. All of the script s are online, most at “OTR”, Old Time Radio. They can be listened to on YouTube.

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  54. Louise said... "Roxie was a horse breeder and trainer."

    Thus Roxie joins others like Leno, Charlene Cafritz, Melba Kronkright, Rev. Jerry Owen, and George Spahn, as having some kind of strange equestrian link to the case.

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  55. Starviego, that is correct. Probably more but back then it was the thing to do, as I recall. All the rich kids in Newport Beach just had to have their horses--not me. I was always more interested in the beach. Matter of fact, after the murders when my mom and younger half-sister would be talking about the horses I tuned out. Never wanted to hear about them again 🙄

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  56. Also, just in case anyone is wondering, I deleted those several comments above because I think I was rambling about things I really don't know much about--ie stepsister Sue.

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