Inyo County arrested and held a large number of the Manson Family members, including Charles Manson. They did what Los Angeles County could not do for one reason or another. But in the end Inyo County missed out on gaining any convictions and instead had to defer to Los Angeles County. Most of those arrested in the Barker Ranch raids had their charges dismissed "in the interest of justice" and/or insufficient evidence.
Manson, of course, was released to LA County to face murder charges. Grogan was released to LA County to face stolen vehicle charges plus he was wanted in Ventura County for escaping from Camarillo State Hospital. Kitty Lutesinger in addition to being a minor, was wanted for questioning in the Hinman murder. Both Dianne Lake and Hugh Rockie Todd were minors who were committed to the state hospital for evaluation and treatment.
The five people who were charged with the arson of the Michigan loader were Charles Manson, Ruthann Morehouse, Catherine Share, Dianne Lake and Christopher Jesus (John Phillip Haught). The only person to have the charges refiled after being dismissed in the interest of justice was Charles Manson. The arson charge was refiled February 6, 1970 as were two stolen vehicle charges. The other stolen vehicle charges were dismissed.
Bruce Davis and Christopher Jesus (Zero) were released from the Inyo County jail on October 27, 1969 which was fairly soon after their arrest. Nine days later "Zero" would be dead.
The spread sheet detailing the people, crimes and outcomes has Bill Vance with the name of Charles Montgomery, Tex's alias. This probably adds to the confusion of when Tex left the Family and returned to Texas.
The spread sheet was compiled by the Inyo County DA's office. It's a bit difficult to navigate but worth the trouble. Some parts of it were cut off during scanning. I was not the person who scanned it. It's probably best read by downloading it on a computer, I'm not sure if it's readable on a phone.
Very cool, thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteThis looks like the second Barker raid?
As always, great work Deb!
ReplyDeleteThanks DebS,
ReplyDeleteVance using the alias Montgomery is an interesting spin. Believable in that he borrowed Duane Schwarm’s name. The question is, did LE have proof of Vance using the name Montgomery or was it assumed, since Vance and Watson were similar in size?
Amongst those those arrested at Barker, Collie Sinclair is the one so little is known about. She’s arrested on October 12, possibly just arriving that day. Little is known of her whereabouts after that. Her name does pop up on the Helter Skelter door, but what else is known?
TabOrFresca said...
ReplyDeleteLittle is known of her whereabouts after that. Her name does pop up on the Helter Skelter door, but what else is known?
All I know about her is that she was a friend of Country Sue Bartell.
Probably would've been better for Zero if the charges weren't dropped
ReplyDeleteThough we'll never know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zero had actually killed himself due to the same acid-fueled thinking and mood-dredging that claimed Joel Pugh thousands of miles away a month later.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I wasn't implying he was murdered. Just that the lack of opportunity might've altered his fate.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. I honestly don't know if he was murdered.
ReplyDeleteI've always thought that wacky, unstable Patty Baldwin killed him.
ReplyDeletegrimtraveller dijo...
ReplyDeleteThough we'll never know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zero had actually killed himself due to the same acid-fueled thinking and mood-dredging that claimed Joel Pugh thousands of miles away a month later.
According to his father (a doctor) Joel Pugh had a previous history of psychological instability. I'm not sure whether that is known of Zero. Although the effects of acid can sometimes be strong and unpredictable ...
jempud said:
ReplyDeleteAccording to his father (a doctor) Joel Pugh had a previous history of psychological instability. I'm not sure whether that is known of Zero. Although the effects of acid can sometimes be strong and unpredictable
Pure speculation on my part.
When there is a tendency to follow one conclusion and then many people seem to stick to it so that it assumes the status of almost fact, I ask myself, well, what if the opposite was actually true ? It usually involves a deep dive into what we do actually have as evidence. So, for example, with Linda Kasabian, any evidence that she played a larger part in the murders is offset by the context in which that evidence appears. So having really thought her through, I'm satisfied that she is as she appeared. That would have changed in an instant, not so much if either Susan or Leslie hadn't said anything, but rather, if they hadn't both emphasized her non-involvement, in private conversations.
With Joel Pugh, he was hit with a double whammy, breaking up with Sandra Good and LSD which didn't agree with him.
Acid really did not agree with some people. It helped wrecked Brian Jones, it launched Pete Townshend into paranoia, it exacerbated John Lennon's delusions and depression, it rocked the inner worlds of Roky Erikson and Skip Spence, it brought the fear to George Harrison ~ to name just a few. On the other hand, it seemed to be of immense benefit to Stewart Copeland, Phil May and Andy Summers and launched much music of the period into realms it would not have otherwise gone and a lot of it was great stuff and still is.
It's virtually impossible to say generally it was a good thing or generally was a bad thing. One has to take it on an individual basis, at least when speaking of the 1960s.
So when thinking about various members of the Family, it's quite interesting trying to work through what effect the various elements of influence {drugs, Charlie, peer pressure, garbage runs, the counterculture, youth, the songs/music, their parents, LE etc} had on each one. There's not always much to go on with some individuals and even where there is, who is to say how each affected particular individuals ?
That doesn't stop one from trying though ! 🤔
There are a few more bits on Zero than others, even if these bits come from Danny DeCarlo, Paul Watkins and Vern Plumlee. And from the little that those three offered up {very different info, by the way} I could see Zero falling into a depressive state or a state so deep that he could believe that actual dying wouldn't be a bad thing, even a fascinating one, as the soul goes on.
Grimtraveller said:
ReplyDeleteIt helped wrecked Brian Jones, it launched Pete Townshend into paranoia, it exacerbated John Lennon's delusions and depression, it rocked the inner worlds of Roky Erikson and Skip Spence, it brought the fear to George Harrison ~ to name just a few. On the other hand, it seemed to be of immense benefit to Stewart Copeland, Phil May and Andy Summers and launched much music of the period into realms it would not have otherwise gone and a lot of it was great stuff and still is.
It's virtually impossible to say generally it was a good thing or generally was a bad thing. One has to take it on an individual basis, at least when speaking of the 1960s.
Good or bad are pretty subjective really. I think it's safe to say at this point in time that acid seems to bring out what's in a person... and decidedly there's some folks that should never ever take it. That said, the environment or "setting" is also really important and as Owsley said "celebrity causes brain damage". Being famous is enough to seriously mess most people up. Nevertheless, if you dose an arsehole all you've got is a tripping arsehole. :-)
My View From the Bar: Zero was murdered. He was in a house with members of the Manson contingent. If he was just a single man in his own house maybe he could have been OK... Excuse me, Gary Hinman. Murder.
ReplyDeletebrownrice said:
ReplyDeleteGood or bad are pretty subjective really
Well...kind of....sometimes....
I think it's safe to say at this point in time that acid seems to bring out what's in a person
^^^^This for me is key. One of its early mooted ideals medically was in helping people overcome repressed trauma by bringing deeply ingrained/blocked out things that lay buried inside. But we're human, we're not all good or all bad but a unique to each person fusion of that which is positive and that which isn't. So it's impossible to know exactly which aspects acid will bring out. That's why an Allen Ginsberg and a Charles Watson are equally relevant to such a discussion.
and decidedly there's some folks that should never ever take it
I agree. But is it possible to say who, beforehand ? I think Charlie was one of those people who should never have taken it.
That said, the environment or "setting" is also really important
This is an oft-overlooked point. One rarely hears about set and setting, even from those that advocate its use.
In the Family, quite a few of the members were experienced with acid long before they met Charlie. But that didn't always equate to being able to handle and steer the experience. I think he saw the potential to handle and steer others !
Being famous is enough to seriously mess most people up
Too true. I remember saying to my kids that even if they loved drama, there was no way I'd let them become child actors and go into that world. They could do it at school or drama clubs {one did} and what they did once they hit 18 was entirely their call, but not while they were children {they were like 9 and 6 at the time}. They weren't too happy about that. But I used to be upfront about child actors and in time, even they began to see how so many of them became messed up. I just recently read Jennette McCurdy's "I'm glad my Mom died" and my younger son {now 18} read it straight after. It's a chillingly sobering read.
Milly James said:
Zero was murdered. He was in a house with members of the Manson contingent
Zero was the last time that a death or "accident" happened around any of the Mansonistas and it was treated lightly. After this, just about any death in SoCal and beyond that involved anyone with even the faintest link {Joel Pugh, Randy Starr, Charlie's Dad's brother in kentucky} was looked at as being a "Manson murder" or at least potentially. I've long felt that LE over-compensated for having been so non~commital about TLB and Hinman when presented with info connecting the Family.
But I'm hesitant to assume or "give a dog a bad name" as it were. Prior to this point, the Family weren't prone to killing or trying to kill, their own. After a point, yes, they were, but these tended to be those seen as defectors. Zero was still part of the group at the point where he died.
I saw this on youtube and thought of y'all:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88_faqrgR9g
This Saturday at 6pm Pacific and 9pm Eastern time...
ReplyDeleteRaffle to support the efforts of Michael Brunner & David Arguelles In funding their efforts to gain their rightful access to CM's estate and, eliminate Jason Fraudman's preposterous hold on all things Charlie
Special Guests and lottery ticket info in description of this short YT video.
Could be mighty interesting. Michael, Daniel and Daniel's daughter "DD" are all pretty great people (and, actual blood relatives of Manson).
Some of you may find this an interesting event....
https://youtu.be/JgCkf7bFCPM
Today Lulu makes her argument to the appellate court regarding Newsom’s reversal of her parole recommendation.
ReplyDeleteHi Doug - I think the issue with Michael Brunner is that legally he is the child of Mary's parents. Mary and Michael are legally sister and brother rather than mother and son. Manson had no legal paternity. It suited them all at the time of adoption and bugger the consequences. In my view, it was far better for that little boy to have a happy life in Wisconsin with loving parents than ever be known as a blood relative of Charlie. You really can't have it all ways...
ReplyDeleteI *think* Daniel Arguelles and Mike Brunner are going to split the proceeds as they've met/hung out/etc and an offer was extended to do so IF Daniel is successful in court.
DeleteMichael wouldn't have wanted to grow up any other way than how his time/experience was in growing up with Mary's parents.
I'm sure he agrees that his childhood was much better for all involved. It is legally Daniel and his daughter who are challenging all of this. Michael acknowledges his legal standing.
I just thought drop the info about Saturday as the panel/guests may interest some folks here on the blog.
Thanks!
Cheers!
Grim - Some years ago, I saw Allen Ginsberg at the Royal Albert Hall. He was still doing his finger bings and bongs. The place was nearly empty. It was some sort of "Spoken Word" event my flatmate had roped me into. We did a few of these evenings, all of which proved to be intriguing. To cut a long story short, Paul McCartney joined him on stage and Linda (showing my back teeth here) was going around taking photos of us punters. I gave her a little finger wave worthy of the chaps performing. If only I'd had a few tiny cymbals to clang, I reckon they'd have offered me gainful employment!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the memory Grim. It's been a long time in my life since someone's mentioned Allen Ginsberg.
Not sure if this Blog met the fate of the Only Official TLB Blog from so very many years ago.... the silence is deafening - I merely came because I saw over on Instagram that Tom O'Neill has been whipping up a fan base of maybe 30 people (LOL) with his Q anon nonsense book and his belief that somehow the District Attorney of Los Angeles is denying him personally all the secrets of the case. Today he noted that the guy who made a recent Manson based film in which the entire family were caricatures and in which one of the two Family scenes was ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS (did Cliff ever go check on George again?) really likes his book. This is called damning with faint praise.
ReplyDeleteDo you know who doesn't like Tom's book? Most people. It didn't sell, it didn't influence scholars of the case, no forward thinking person liked it or believed it. It promised everything and delivered horse turds. The ONLY thing I wanted from 20 years of him defaulting on publisher's advances and harassing relatives of the victims and the guilty was at least a TINT STEP FORWARD regarding the fucking motive. Instead I got some psycho bullshit out of Maury Terry's completely debunked work of garbage.
I am sorry. I like this place and I like this field of study. To see that the blog has been silent for almost three weeks and then to see Tom "Oh poor me Col Tate's widow didn't like me bullying her" O'Neill crowing about his absolutely stupid book was a bit much today. I know Tom/Vera post here and please don't waste your fucking time. You are a clown. Your book is a clown show. Anyone who likes your book is a clown. Your life is a clown car. Go away so the adults can work.
It should say TINY step forward but cannot edit so fuck it
ReplyDeleteNot sure if this Blog met the fate of the Only Official TLB Blog from so very many years ago.... the silence is deafening - I merely came because I saw over on Instagram that Tom O'Neill has been whipping up a fan base of maybe 30 people (LOL) with his Q anon nonsense book and his belief that somehow the District Attorney of Los Angeles is denying him personally all the secrets of the case. Today he noted that the guy who made a recent Manson based film in which the entire family were caricatures and in which one of the two Family scenes was ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS (did Cliff ever go check on George again?) really likes his book. This is called damning with faint praise.
ReplyDeleteDo you know who doesn't like Tom's book? Most people. It didn't sell, it didn't influence scholars of the case, no forward thinking person liked it or believed it. It promised everything and delivered horse turds. The ONLY thing I wanted from 20 years of him defaulting on publisher's advances and harassing relatives of the victims and the guilty was at least a TINT STEP FORWARD regarding the fucking motive. Instead I got some psycho bullshit out of Maury Terry's completely debunked work of garbage.
I am sorry. I like this place and I like this field of study. To see that the blog has been silent for almost three weeks and then to see Tom "Oh poor me Col Tate's widow didn't like me bullying her" O'Neill crowing about his absolutely stupid book was a bit much today. I know Tom/Vera post here and please don't waste your fucking time. You are a clown. Your book is a clown show. Anyone who likes your book is a clown. Your life is a clown car. Go away so the adults can work.
Not sure if this Blog met the fate of the Only Official TLB Blog from so very many years ago.... the silence is deafening - I merely came because I saw over on Instagram that Tom O'Neill has been whipping up a fan base of maybe 30 people (LOL) with his Q anon nonsense book and his belief that somehow the District Attorney of Los Angeles is denying him personally all the secrets of the case. Today he noted that the guy who made a recent Manson based film in which the entire family were caricatures and in which one of the two Family scenes was ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS (did Cliff ever go check on George again?) really likes his book. This is called damning with faint praise.
ReplyDeleteDo you know who doesn't like Tom's book? Most people. It didn't sell, it didn't influence scholars of the case, no forward thinking person liked it or believed it. It promised everything and delivered horse turds. The ONLY thing I wanted from 20 years of him defaulting on publisher's advances and harassing relatives of the victims and the guilty was at least a TINY STEP FORWARD regarding the fucking motive. Instead I got some psycho bullshit out of Maury Terry's completely debunked work of garbage.
I am sorry. I like this place and I like this field of study. To see that the blog has been silent for almost three weeks and then to see Tom "Oh poor me Col Tate's widow didn't like me bullying her" O'Neill crowing about his absolutely stupid book was a bit much today. I know Tom/Vera post here and please don't waste your fucking time. You are a clown. Your book is a clown show. Anyone who likes your book is a clown. Your life is a clown car. Go away so the adults can work.
Not sure if this Blog met the fate of the Only Official TLB Blog from so very many years ago.... the silence is deafening - I merely came because I saw over on Instagram that Tom O'Neill has been whipping up a fan base of maybe 30 people (LOL) with his Q anon nonsense book and his belief that somehow the District Attorney of Los Angeles is denying him personally all the secrets of the case. Today he noted that the guy who made a recent Manson based film in which the entire family were caricatures and in which one of the two Family scenes was ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS (did Cliff ever go check on George again?) really likes his book. This is called damning with faint praise.
ReplyDeleteDo you know who doesn't like Tom's book? Most people. It didn't sell, it didn't influence scholars of the case, no forward thinking person liked it or believed it. It promised everything and delivered horse turds. The ONLY thing I wanted from 20 years of him defaulting on publisher's advances and harassing relatives of the victims and the guilty was at least a TINY STEP FORWARD regarding the fucking motive. Instead I got some psycho bullshit out of Maury Terry's completely debunked work of garbage.
I am sorry. I like this place and I like this field of study. To see that the blog has been silent for almost three weeks and then to see Tom "Oh poor me Col Tate's widow didn't like me bullying her" O'Neill crowing about his absolutely stupid book was a bit much today. I know Tom/Vera post here and please don't waste your fucking time. You are a clown. Your book is a clown show. Anyone who likes your book is a clown. Your life is a clown car. Go away so the adults can work.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if this Blog met the fate of the Only Official TLB Blog from so very many years ago.... the silence is deafening - I merely came because I saw over on Instagram that Tom O'Neill has been whipping up a fan base of maybe 30 people (LOL) with his Q anon nonsense book and his belief that somehow the District Attorney of Los Angeles is denying him personally all the secrets of the case. Today he noted that the guy who made a recent Manson based film in which the entire family were caricatures and in which one of the two Family scenes was ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS (did Cliff ever go check on George again?) really likes his book. This is called damning with faint praise.
ReplyDeleteDo you know who doesn't like Tom's book? Most people. It didn't sell, it didn't influence scholars of the case, no forward thinking person liked it or believed it. It promised everything and delivered horse turds. The ONLY thing I wanted from 20 years of him defaulting on publisher's advances and harassing relatives of the victims and the guilty was at least a TINY STEP FORWARD regarding the motive. Instead I got some psycho bullshit out of Maury Terry's completely debunked work of garbage.
I am sorry. I like this place and I like this field of study. To see that the blog has been silent for almost three weeks and then to see Tom "Oh poor me Col Tate's widow didn't like me bullying her" O'Neill crowing about his absolutely stupid book was a bit much today. I know Tom/Vera post here and please don't waste your time. You are a clown. Your book is a clown show. Anyone who likes your book is a clown. Your life is a clown car. Go away so the adults can work.
But tell us how you really feel.
ReplyDeleteFuck you testing testing Fuck off
ReplyDeleteFuck It Fuck it good
ReplyDeleteCol, we solved the case a few weeks ago. Everyone agrees now.
ReplyDeleteI thought all of the regular posters were on spring break.
ReplyDeleteIf Find a Grave is accurate Charlie's dad and I would celebrate our birthdays on the same day, except that he's dead.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.findagrave.com/memorial/116001100/colonel-walker_henderson-scott
Trust the Col to deliver a stirring kick start... always a joy to read his diatribes.
ReplyDelete"He was a hard man... but cruel" to quote from the Piranha Brothers. Love it!
I guess I was signed in with a different Google account when I commented about spring break and Charlie's dad's birthday.
ReplyDeleteWhut
Nope, I'm still unknown???
ReplyDeleteWhut
brown- he used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks
ReplyDeletecielo- although I believe you are a great site and great researcher I am shocked that you omitted SHARING THE SOLUTION WITH ME
ReplyDeleteIt was Winifred Chapman all along. She was an MKULTRA asset involved in the drug trade and kiddie porn ring being run out of the house.
ReplyDeleteAnd it turns out her name wasn't Winifred at all, but Chippie. 😟 🙆🏿♀️
ReplyDelete