The American people became aware that the Tate/LaBianca murders had been solved when LAPD Chief Ed Davis held his live television news conference on Monday, December 1, 1969, announcing that arrest warrants for three of the suspects had been issued. The next day the name 'Charles Manson' would be revealed as being the guru leader of the group. The media was supposed to be as surprised as the public at this news, though Bugliosi conceded that the press was already circling the story, saying "there were reporters all over Independence.."(by the 27th of November, 1969)
(Helter Skelter, pg215)
But this was hardly accurate. In fact, the evidence shows that a huge swath of the mainstream media was fully aware of the link between the Manson Family and the Tate/LaBianca murders by about October 15--six weeks earlier:
My Life With Charles Manson, by Paul Watkins, Chapter 23
On October 13, Brooks, Crockett, and I were escorted to Independence by Don Ward and officers of the highway patrol. Brooks and Paul had already made statements to law enforcement officials (including Ward) as to the nature of “goings-on” at the Barker Ranch. They had talked about Charlie’s philosophy and Helter-Skelter. The law, however, at that point, was little interested in such bizarre and unlikely tales. Their primary concern, it seemed (at least on the surface), was that Manson and the others be identified and linked to the stolen vehicles found at the ranch. We were shown photographs of dune buggies and Harleys and asked to identify them. We did; both privately to Dave Steuber of the highway patrol and later that week during Charlie’s preliminary hearing in the Inyo county courthouse.
But during that hearing, things changed drastically.
One morning flocks of reporters appeared in the courtroom; not only L.A. and local press, but foreign correspondents as well; what had started out as a quiet, routine procedure became suddenly a circus of spectators, reporters, cops, and lawyers. Word was out that this was not a simple case of auto theft. Charles Manson had become a murder suspect.
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LADA files Box 46 vol32 pg69 Paul Watkins Aug 11, 1971 testimony in Grogan's murder trial
"Q: When did you first talk to a policeman in connection with any investigations that was going on up there, let's say after the middle of August of 1969?
A(Watkins): The first time I started talking to the investigators was in Inyo County, the Inyo County Courthouse, on August--no; September the 13nth, 1969. [he probably meant October]
Q: I talked to Dave Steuber, head of the Highway Patrol; I talked to Frank Fowles, District Attorney(of Inyo County); I talked to Buck, Lynn Compton, Assistant District Attorney(of Los Angeles County); I talked to Paul Whitely, Homicide Officer(LASO); I talked to, I believe it was, I talked to some auto theft guys. I think it was Gleason(LASO)."
Q: Did you talk to any newspapermen?
A: Yes.
Q: At about this time?
A: Yes.
Q: Would it be fair to say that there were quite a few newsmen up there in that area?
A: Yes.
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LADA files Box 56-2 Bruce Davis' Hinman/Shea trial Dec '71 to Feb '72 pg2338
George Denny(Bruce Davis' defense attorney): " Then on October 12th, Manson and all the rest of the members of the Family, the male members, were arrested; they were placed into custody; there was a great deal of publicity at the time that they had--that is, that the police had the murderers of the Tate and LaBianca murders."
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Witness to Evil, by George Bishop c.1971 pg35
....the local citizens(of Independence, CA) gradually became aware, as did the authorities, that something far more ominous that a band of half-naked hippie car thieves had descended into their midst. Homicide detectives ... began arriving from Los Angeles and were quickly followed by newspaper and wire service reporters and television camera crews.
"It looked for a while like there were more TV cameras in town than television sets," a waitress at the Pines, Independence's only restaurant and the unofficial press headquarters during the days preceding the Family's arraignment*, told me.
Most of the press and police officers put up at the Winnedumah Hotel... (The hotel) is accustomed to having traffic speed by on US 395 ... Not so during that fateful October; the "No vacancy" sign flashed an unusual admonition.
*Referring to the arraignment on auto theft charges that occurred at the courthouse in Independence on Oct. 22, 1969.
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The only media report I was able to find was a reference to a tiny item in the LA Times:
http://derangedlacrimes.com/?p=10824&fbclid=IwAR2hvo4JFb5BigUI6Ucw2-z-cEh7v_zlMt7DvMnc7_VA-NrokforXgsJeto
On
October 13, a paragraph in the Los Angeles Times’ Southland section
covered a raid on a “Hippie Commune” in Death Valley National Park
twenty-one miles west of Badwater, CA.
So the question is, who had the power to get all those media people to keep a lid on the news story of the year? The DA Evelle Younger? The Governor Ronald Reagan? The Attorney General John Mitchell? The White House? The CIA? The FBI? Whoever it was, the command came from on high. But why was holding on to the story so important?
16 comments:
Star, you pushing this discredited line has become like Christmas. It comes every year.
Cielo already showed you last year just how wrong you are on this. This is the kind of thing that is going to turn this site into one of those kooky conspiracy theory sites.
Discredited how? Are my sources incorrect? Post a link to how Cielo proved me wrong.
Memory loss or sheer stubbornness ? And over the years there are others.
Aliens.
grimtraveller said:
Cielo already showed you last year just how wrong you are on this
Oh, and DebS, Vera Dreiser and Gorodish.
I didn't want to make a full thread of Watkin's statements a year ago, as it was based on his sole account. However, with the addition of the statements by Defense Attorney George Denny and the quote from the book by George Bishop, I thought that was enough evidence. But I guess not.
Grim, exactly 💯
starviego said:
I didn't want to make a full thread of Watkin's statements a year ago, as it was based on his sole account. However, with the addition of the statements by Defense Attorney George Denny and the quote from the book by George Bishop, I thought that was enough evidence
All these Georges!
George Bishop was the author of a book. He wrote on the pre-trial part of his book in flowing, dramatic tones, the emphasis being on trying to give the reader a sense of drama rather than any dates and chronological blow-by-blow account of the Family in Inyo County. So that section is all over the place. You've only got to read further on, on page 37 {you conveniently stop at 35}, to see that he speaks of the Family arrests that were made possible by Susan Atkins {and that in itself being a reason for the convergence of the press} to see that he can't possibly be talking about October.
George Denny, coincidentally, was instrumental in torpedoing Vince Bugliosi's attempt at becoming attorney general by letting the world know about "the mistress and the milkman" debacle. He caused a lot of trouble for Bugliosi and sarcastically stated that Bugliosi should've thanked him for enabling him to become a millionaire as he wouldn't have had any time on his hands to write a book had he become attorney general.
He was not without a sense of humour.
But as a trial lawyer representing Bruce, obfuscation was very much part of his game plan. He majored on so many minors and tried to get the jury thinking of things other than Bruce's fingerprints and talk of how the Family fixed Shorty.
Paul Watkins didn't keep a diary and his head for specific dates is no better or more reliable than anyone else in that period that wasn't writing things down on official documents.
Back in October of last year {all these Octobers !} Cielo asked you point blank: "where’s the coverage from this 10/13 hearing Paul describes in his testimony ?" before going on to say "The AP article Deb posted with this article is the only you’ll find. Whereas, the quoted paragraph above that talks about the massive influx of media, Paul is clearly talking about what happened in December. If you look at just 12/3/69, you’re looking at hundreds of papers from all over the country covering this with multiple articles. Same with video and still photography. This obviously doesn’t exist from back in October." Both parts of his quote still apply.
What also still applies are these questions he asks you, "You think that a mass of media that included foreign correspondents arrived in independence in mid October and waited a month and a half? Do you think it’s more likely that Paul, who is testifying about this two years later, is mixing up two separate events?
In the other exchange, you state 'He obviously meant October, not September.' Doesn’t that suggest you don’t have great faith in the accuracy of Paul’s timeline."
Dragging in the Mai Lai massacre ain't cutting it.
A bit O/T but I've just read an obituary for a Linda Darlene Chiochios (Linda Kasabian),aged 73,who died on January 21, 2023. It's in the Tacoma-Pierce County WA death notices for January 2023.
I'm assuming this IS Yana?
Does anybody live near Independence in Inyo County? If so, stop by the public library and attempt to access their archives of the Inyo Register, the local newspaper of record, for those last two weeks in Oct '69. I contacted the Inyo Register, inquiring how to buy temporary access to their archives, but was surprised when they told me they didn't have them, though the public library would have them. If I'm right, there should be at least some reference to the sudden influx of media there at that time, even if they don't tie it directly to the TLB murders.
But I wouldn't be surprised if those parts of the archive had mysteriously disappeared.
Watkins could not have been referring to December 1969 in his account, because by then they were living in Shoshone, a 100 miles from Independence:
Chp23
"Around the middle of November... Juan, Brooks, Crockett, and I met with reporters (Don Dornan, Iver Davis, and Jerry Le Blanc) in Sherman Oaks and told them what we knew about the Manson Family—including the murder of Gary Hinman and what we’d heard regarding Shorty’s death. The interviews lasted five days and resulted in the publication of articles in both Spain and Germany as well as a book (which we did not agree to) that was later released, called Five to Die. We were paid eleven hundred dollars each for our information. Afterward Crockett, Brooks, and I went to Shoshone, while Juan remained in L.A.
"Our own living conditions in the cave were by no means pleasant. ... Since Golar Canyon was off limits, we could not go to the mine and we had to find work in Shoshone.
In late November we moved out of the cave and rented a house on the main highway across the street from the high-school football field. ...
Shoshone was far from mellow for any of us."
It is interesting that Watkins, Posten, and Crockett are selling their stories to the media in the middle of November, but even then the reporters seemingly sat on the exclusive of a lifetime, though the story somehow was published in Europe.
LA Times ran the Watkins, Posten and Crockett story on 12/5/69
starviego said:
It is interesting that Watkins, Posten, and Crockett are selling their stories to the media in the middle of November, but even then the reporters seemingly sat on the exclusive of a lifetime
The press agreed to sit on the story for about a week. Matt tells you this here. But also look at what Cielo says immediately after.
As well as this, according to Ivor Davis who co~wrote "Five to die," it was after Manson's Inyo arraignment that he spoke with Watkins, Poston and Flynn. They spent "days" talking and this formed the core of his book. What was interesting was how he came to speak with those 3. After Manson's Inyo arraignment, Davis tried to interview Charlie and he was going to do it but wanted $350 which Davis's paper was not willing to pay. So he went back to SoCal to try and see if anyone from Spahn Ranch was willing to speak as he wanted background on Manson. So this all happened from December 3rd onwards.
You yourself have expressed major doubts regarding Watkins' exactitude. Ivor Davis would seem to agree with you and with it, your theory seems to be sliding down the pans.
After Manson's Inyo arraignment, Davis tried to interview Charlie....
Manson was arraigned for auto theft(on Oct 22, 1969). Why would an LA-based reporter want to interview some obscure person charged with auto theft in far-off Inyo County? Obviously, they knew he was a suspect for TLB by this time. (by the end of Oct, at the latest)
starviego said...
Manson was arraigned for auto theft(on Oct 22, 1969). Why would an LA-based reporter want to interview some obscure person charged with auto theft in far-off Inyo County? Obviously, they knew he was a suspect for TLB by this time. (by the end of Oct, at the latest)
Naughty, naughty Star. You know full well that both I and Davis are referring to the December arraignment. Every link I've provided you with makes reference to it and Cielo comments on the December arraignment and/or events around it.
I've already stated 1000 times over in my years here, that it is a well-known fact that Charlie was on the police radar for these murders by mid-October. It is documented in that LaBianca progress report. You're trying to prove the press knew. You cannot. Until you can show dated reports that show otherwise, you're in shit street.
It doesn't actually bother me one way or the other if it's true. But it does when conspiracists keep muddying waters that are clear and drinkable.
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