So long Jerry, you were basically a good guy. I remember seeing the 'dead' posters in head shops and hearing fans of the Dead talking about concerts and what have you. I didn't listen much to the band, though in later years, I came to see that the fans that followed the Dead concerts were almost a sort of a, what I would call a 'groupy cult.' Sort of like the fanatics that debated and looked up to the 'who's the best guitarist...' blah blah. There is no best guitarist, anymore than there is the best song or book. I think. Looking at Jerry's pictures, almost always smiling, the first thing I thought of, back in 'the days,' is: another guy I know I'd really enjoy having a couple drinks or pot of coffee with. As with Frank Zappa, Jerry had some pretty interesting things to say. Jerry also angered some, many actually, when he said-"rap ain't music...sorry it just ain't." As for his take on Brother Charlie (Manson, of the Tate/LaBianca criminal cases from the year of 1969 and of many enjoyable interviews later) Charlie actually said that he, Charlie (not our friend the good guy in Britain, his Royal Highness Prince Charlie) was an "outlaw, man..." and "look what you all did to me." -kicked me set me on fire deprived me of my rights you threw the Constitution in the trash and denied my legal right to a fair trial and to legally represent myself... Charlie was, of course, right about that. He should have been given the right to self consul and to call witnesses. Just as the lovely girl, unfairly judged, Sadie/Susan Atkins, was denied some rights, particularly the unjiust, hateful denial of earned freedom/parole. Jerry was looking at Charlie from his perspective, Jerry's that is, as a fellow growing up in the American culture, in the 60s as an adult now and he looked around and he saw and read about the many aspects of this culture and the many crimes and weirdness, such as the war against Vietnam and...so on. And so on Speaking of weirdness, what was up with, when I walked into a department store, a Penneys' in this case, years ago, and they had Grateful Dead ties! That's right, men's dress ties. Kids in Haight-Ashbury, Taos, Chatsworth/Spahn Ranch, communes here and there, the phonies at Altamont, Woodstock, Monterrey looked gor high and listened. Many died, many were fooled by the rock stars, most of whom were anre a holes, as the bands played and socked tens of millions away and they wouldn't have a soda pop with any of these fans and they always looked down at them and made fun of their fans, i know, I heard some. Jerry was a good, honest guy with a good heart. Know what I mean? Yes you do thanks
Matt said: brownrice, I recently read a Jerry quote that reinforces your point. It was about Owsley Stanley:
“There's nothing wrong with Bear that a few billion less brain cells wouldn't cure."
:-) That's actually one of my favourite quotes of all time about Bear, Matt. Garcia also described him once as "a difficult cat at best" (said with much affection) which was also true. As Doug said though "an amazing mind". He was certainly one of the most interesting and intelligent people I ever came across.
Does anyone know the name of a coming of age film where one awestruck young man points out Owsley to another and explains his "work" with LSD? The setting was the build-up to a concert possibly Woodstock. I've been trying to remember that movie for years.
deprived me of my rights you threw the Constitution in the trash and denied my legal right to a fair trial and to legally represent myself... Charlie was, of course, right about that
Charles Manson said a lot of things that were insightful and true....when it came to the failings of society and what was wrong with it. But interestingly, he rarely applied that recognition of wrongdoing to himself. And he most certainly was not right about being denied his legal rights. The irony will always be that it was him exercising his legal rights to the limit and basically abusing them, that eventually led to him not being allowed to represent himself.
He should have been given the right to self counsel
But Fayez, are you cognizant with what actually happened before and during the trial ? I mean, are you ? Because you have to ignore a whole lotta reality to hold the view you do. Now, I've said for years that I think the judge should have given him one more final stiff warning and let him carry on hanging himself with his legal rope. But it's not correct to say he was denied his legal right. He had that right granted by a judge in 1969 and it was his behaviour that got it taken away because the judge felt that after 3 months of putting up with Charlie's stupid motions in court, that to allow a man facing the possibility of a death sentence that acted as Manson did, to represent himself, was going to be a serious miscarriage of justice. And in many ways he was right.
and to call witnesses
He could have called any witness that he wanted. There was nothing preventing him from calling any witnesses. He and his team chose not to. And then in the penalty phase, they did.
Just as the lovely girl, unfairly judged, Sadie/Susan Atkins
Yeah, Gary Hinman, Wojciech Frykowski and Sharon Tate all saw the lovely side of her and probably thought 'what a sweet, unfairly judged assistant in murder !"
was denied some rights, particularly the unjust, hateful denial of earned freedom/parole
Parole isn't really something that a prisoner earns. It is something the state grants, pending certain conditions. There's a difference. And going before a parole board and saying "I didn't stab Sharon Tate" when the court record states that she was adjudged to have done so automatically nixes her chances. Susan was always going to be in the soup. Even if she hadn't stabbed Sharon, because she went on record in court as saying she did, that left her in an almost impossible position and it made the parole board's job easier than it would have been for say, a LVH parole board.
Thanks Matt for the Jerry quote. I don't think I knew that one. I read some of that interview last night and was amused to see it was conducted on an airline and it's noted when stewardess comes by with coffee etc. It's interesting that the Grateful Dead had just released Casey Jones and Garcia was already expressing regret for influencing more people to do cocaine, even though that wasn't the song's intent. Also, talking about Neal Cassady how he was the most amazing person he'd ever known and his raps were in twelve dimensions etc. I've seen some of the footage of Cassady doing his thing and he obviously was a lot of fun, but my impression is that he was a speed addict. Why is that okay and not cocaine? Seems at least as harmful. What I heard of his rap didn't seem multidimensional to me. Would be interested to hear others' thoughts. Was also imagining what an interaction between Manson and Neal Cassady would have been like. What if Cassady got to drive the Black Bus for a stint. Garcia appears in a Hell's Angels documentary and when interviewer asks if he's afraid of the Angles he says: Sure. The Angels are really good in all the violent spaces.
Mr Humphrat said: Would be interested to hear others' thoughts. Was also imagining what an interaction between Manson and Neal Cassady would have been like.
Personally, I think Cassady would've made a very quick study of Charlie and given him a fairly wide berth. Both men were graduates of the American under-caste of the 30s, 40s & 50s but whereas Charlie identified very strongly with prison as "home", it was really the last place that Neal felt any connection to. His preferred pasture was privileged bohemian, college-age intellectuals who he could run rings around (particularly in terms of street savvy and life experience). Ginsberg & Kerouac (his contemporaries) didn't know what hit 'em in the '40s and Kesey & Garcia were totally in awe of the man. No doubt the age difference didn't hurt but by all accounts he was remarkably quick-witted, entertaining and multi-levelled.
I doubt Charlie's rave would've had much effect on him beyond vague amusement and I think he probably would've confined himself to maybe hussling a joint off of the guy or trying to borrow a vehicle and then moving on. The girls on the other hand could well've been quite a different story. :-)
After all these years, now look back,read all about it and we look at the pictures again and again. Gotta lighten things up sometimes and say, "look at that goof or goofa, what the hey he or the dummy guy is wearing which leads me anyhoo to say oh did Susan and Charlie have a hairdresser enjoy cutting and stylying their brunnette hair every week or something if you know what I'm sayin' I know I laugh and say to myself, "self you're just as goofy for that enjoying." Now we are here. Here with people we see throw in a comment on different sites to do with the un-called for visits by some people to the streets of Cielo and Waverly in smoggy LA city. That was in the month of Leo don't you know oh was it that long ago?
Now then, the people that use foul words, words to do with nothing but exposing their crassness when all they have is trying to direct personal insults at some others who visit and make comments here and on other sites. Crude and with no class they are. Makes these people feel better to make personal insults? Of course, most often, they are unhappy people and are resentful and jealous. There is also something too, a Psychology professor I know said, that is called-"emotional intelligence." That's a term used to describe people whose conscience didn't fully develop and so, they have little or no sentimentality. For the most part, they have and had colorless, narrow lives. So they have prejudice against what they think can justify their hate and name calling. But tommorrow I will be the same and look the same and that's true of the haters too, for them. Take a look at how the main murderer-Tex Watson- of the August '69 ones is rarely mentioned on these 'Manson' sites, but boy, 'don't we just hate Charlie Susan and Leslie' and somethings.
Good evening Grim, or day either way hope your doing okay here you wrote and addressed an issue or more and they were not hard to understand as you stated a fact or pointed to situations such as the court proceedings involving Charlie and those whacky fun loving silly girls we can say are the walking singing trio in the hallways and Charlie just grinned and nodded to the reporters and often said "how ya doin' today." One thing I gotta say is Charlie was a friendly guy and it did make the days of December '69 to '71 go a little easier to live by from the cell (jail not smartphone) to the courtroom and all of that legalese bull by both sides. As you stated their were various scenarios played out and some that Charlie and the ladies would have wanted and it went on. Charlie, after the trials was more inclined to be defiant and answer questions his way in interviews while the 3 girls, from the trial to several years into their new homes as the guests of the state of California were carrying on like a continuing comedy of errors. Heh Yet, let's think and look at how so many were growing up (so many now, of course) that had trauma and so much sadness. Alone and down, that sadness and fear, insecurity. So many times, feeling scared and confused at a young tender age and cried. Like Charlie and Susan
Thanks Brownrice, I would have liked to have been there to hang out with him, Jerry and some of the others for a day. I've been watching some You Tube about him again and saw he did do a year or more in San Quentin. I should read the book of his letters from there to family. His daughter said he was mad at himself and his demons (drugs and women) and suicidal. He supposedly read a good portion of the books in the Denver Library as a youth. Worked on the Southern Pacific railroad 10 years. He could have turned Charlie's girls into carefree boxcar girls haha. I did see the Grateful Dead three times. At first all I knew was Truckin' and got invited by my friend to join his older sister and her friends at the first of their "farewell" concerts at Winterland, San Francisco, in 1974. Ended up in the front row after two plus hours of marijuana first and second hand smoke inhalation, and when the band came on discovered the true meaning of a wall of sound. Absolute sensory overload, after a few songs retreated with my friend to the empty portions of seats above and slept through much of the show. Now I realize I was there at somewhat the peak of their career and I love a lot of their music. I love Jerry's gentle self- deprecating self and his love of all kinds of music and his insights into that world. Again, regarding speed, it seems like there were those in the sixties who saw what harm speed did to people and those who thought people on speed were groovy.
19 comments:
Good ol' Jerry... always perceptive, articulate and the hippest, wisest kid in the class.
So long Jerry, you were basically a good guy.
I remember seeing the 'dead' posters in head shops and hearing fans of the Dead talking about concerts and what have you.
I didn't listen much to the band, though in later years, I came to see that the fans that followed the Dead concerts were almost a sort of a, what I would call a 'groupy cult.' Sort of like the fanatics that debated and looked up to the 'who's the best guitarist...' blah blah. There is no best guitarist, anymore than there is the best song or book. I think.
Looking at Jerry's pictures, almost always smiling, the first thing I thought of, back in 'the days,' is: another guy I know I'd really enjoy having a couple drinks or pot of coffee with.
As with Frank Zappa, Jerry had some pretty interesting things to say.
Jerry also angered some, many actually, when he said-"rap ain't music...sorry it just ain't."
As for his take on Brother Charlie (Manson, of the Tate/LaBianca criminal cases from the year of 1969 and of many enjoyable interviews later) Charlie actually said that he, Charlie (not our friend the good guy in Britain, his Royal Highness Prince Charlie) was an "outlaw, man..." and "look what you all did to me."
-kicked me set me on fire deprived me of my rights you threw the Constitution in the trash and denied my legal right to a fair trial and to legally represent myself...
Charlie was, of course, right about that. He should have been given the right to self consul and to call witnesses. Just as the lovely girl, unfairly judged, Sadie/Susan Atkins, was denied some rights, particularly the unjiust, hateful denial of earned freedom/parole.
Jerry was looking at Charlie from his perspective, Jerry's that is, as a fellow growing up in the American culture, in the 60s as an adult now and he looked around and he saw and read about the many aspects of this culture and the many crimes and weirdness, such as the war against Vietnam and...so on. And so on
Speaking of weirdness, what was up with, when I walked into a department store, a Penneys' in this case, years ago, and they had Grateful Dead ties! That's right, men's dress ties. Kids in Haight-Ashbury, Taos, Chatsworth/Spahn Ranch, communes here and there, the phonies at Altamont, Woodstock, Monterrey looked gor high and listened. Many died, many were fooled by the rock stars, most of whom were anre a holes, as the bands played and socked tens of millions away and they wouldn't have a soda pop with any of these fans and they always looked down at them and made fun of their fans, i know, I heard some. Jerry was a good, honest guy with a good heart.
Know what I mean? Yes you do thanks
brownrice said...
Good ol' Jerry... always perceptive, articulate and the hippest, wisest kid in the class.
brownrice, I recently read a Jerry quote that reinforces your point. It was about Owsley Stanley:
“There's nothing wrong with Bear that a few billion less brain cells wouldn't cure."
The man had an amazing mind and ability for putting together an epic sound system too...not just a one trick pony...er, Bear
@Fayez Abadaziz so basically, you know nothing about the Dead, Deadheads or Jerry himself.
Matt said: brownrice, I recently read a Jerry quote that reinforces your point. It was about Owsley Stanley:
“There's nothing wrong with Bear that a few billion less brain cells wouldn't cure."
:-) That's actually one of my favourite quotes of all time about Bear, Matt. Garcia also described him once as "a difficult cat at best" (said with much affection) which was also true. As Doug said though "an amazing mind". He was certainly one of the most interesting and intelligent people I ever came across.
Favorite Garcia quote:
"Heroin takes away all of the problems you have in life and replaces them with just one: where to get your next fix."
Does anyone know the name of a coming of age film where one awestruck young man points out Owsley to another and explains his "work" with LSD? The setting was the build-up to a concert possibly Woodstock. I've been trying to remember that movie for years.
gina said...
@Fayez Abadaziz so basically, you know nothing about the Dead, Deadheads or Jerry himself.
High five, Gina!
Fayez Abedaziz said:
deprived me of my rights you threw the Constitution in the trash and denied my legal right to a fair trial and to legally represent myself...
Charlie was, of course, right about that
Charles Manson said a lot of things that were insightful and true....when it came to the failings of society and what was wrong with it. But interestingly, he rarely applied that recognition of wrongdoing to himself.
And he most certainly was not right about being denied his legal rights. The irony will always be that it was him exercising his legal rights to the limit and basically abusing them, that eventually led to him not being allowed to represent himself.
He should have been given the right to self counsel
But Fayez, are you cognizant with what actually happened before and during the trial ? I mean, are you ? Because you have to ignore a whole lotta reality to hold the view you do. Now, I've said for years that I think the judge should have given him one more final stiff warning and let him carry on hanging himself with his legal rope. But it's not correct to say he was denied his legal right.
He had that right granted by a judge in 1969 and it was his behaviour that got it taken away because the judge felt that after 3 months of putting up with Charlie's stupid motions in court, that to allow a man facing the possibility of a death sentence that acted as Manson did, to represent himself, was going to be a serious miscarriage of justice. And in many ways he was right.
and to call witnesses
He could have called any witness that he wanted. There was nothing preventing him from calling any witnesses. He and his team chose not to.
And then in the penalty phase, they did.
Just as the lovely girl, unfairly judged, Sadie/Susan Atkins
Yeah, Gary Hinman, Wojciech Frykowski and Sharon Tate all saw the lovely side of her and probably thought 'what a sweet, unfairly judged assistant in murder !"
was denied some rights, particularly the unjust, hateful denial of earned freedom/parole
Parole isn't really something that a prisoner earns. It is something the state grants, pending certain conditions.
There's a difference.
And going before a parole board and saying "I didn't stab Sharon Tate" when the court record states that she was adjudged to have done so automatically nixes her chances. Susan was always going to be in the soup. Even if she hadn't stabbed Sharon, because she went on record in court as saying she did, that left her in an almost impossible position and it made the parole board's job easier than it would have been for say, a LVH parole board.
Thanks Matt for the Jerry quote. I don't think I knew that one. I read some of that interview last night and was amused to see it was conducted on an airline and it's noted when stewardess comes by with coffee etc.
It's interesting that the Grateful Dead had just released Casey Jones and Garcia was already expressing regret for influencing more people to do cocaine, even though that wasn't the song's intent.
Also, talking about Neal Cassady how he was the most amazing person he'd ever known and his raps were in twelve dimensions etc. I've seen some of the footage of Cassady doing his thing and he obviously was a lot of fun, but my impression is that he was a speed addict. Why is that okay and not cocaine? Seems at least as harmful. What I heard of his rap didn't seem multidimensional to me. Would be interested to hear others' thoughts. Was also imagining what an interaction between Manson and Neal Cassady would have been like. What if Cassady got to drive the Black Bus for a stint.
Garcia appears in a Hell's Angels documentary and when interviewer asks if he's afraid of the Angles he says: Sure. The Angels are really good in all the violent spaces.
Interesting thoughts, Hump...
Mr Humphrat said: Would be interested to hear others' thoughts. Was also imagining what an interaction between Manson and Neal Cassady would have been like.
Personally, I think Cassady would've made a very quick study of Charlie and given him a fairly wide berth. Both men were graduates of the American under-caste of the 30s, 40s & 50s but whereas Charlie identified very strongly with prison as "home", it was really the last place that Neal felt any connection to. His preferred pasture was privileged bohemian, college-age intellectuals who he could run rings around (particularly in terms of street savvy and life experience). Ginsberg & Kerouac (his contemporaries) didn't know what hit 'em in the '40s and Kesey & Garcia were totally in awe of the man. No doubt the age difference didn't hurt but by all accounts he was remarkably quick-witted, entertaining and multi-levelled.
I doubt Charlie's rave would've had much effect on him beyond vague amusement and I think he probably would've confined himself to maybe hussling a joint off of the guy or trying to borrow a vehicle and then moving on. The girls on the other hand could well've been quite a different story. :-)
After all these years, now look back,read all about it and we look at the pictures again and again.
Gotta lighten things up sometimes and say, "look at that goof or goofa, what the hey he or the dummy guy is wearing which leads me anyhoo to say oh did Susan and Charlie have a hairdresser enjoy cutting and stylying their brunnette hair every week or something
if you know what I'm sayin'
I know I laugh and say to myself, "self you're just as goofy for that enjoying."
Now we are here. Here with people we see throw in a comment on different sites to do with the un-called for visits by some people to the streets of Cielo and Waverly in smoggy LA city. That was in the month of Leo don't you know oh was it that long ago?
Now then,
the people that use foul words, words to do with nothing but exposing their crassness when all they have is trying to direct personal insults at some others who visit and make comments here and on other sites. Crude and with no class they are. Makes these people feel better to make personal insults? Of course, most often, they are unhappy people and are resentful and jealous. There is also something too, a Psychology professor I know said, that is called-"emotional intelligence." That's a term used to describe people whose conscience didn't fully develop and so, they have little or no sentimentality. For the most part, they have and had colorless, narrow lives. So they have prejudice against what they think can justify their hate and name calling. But tommorrow I will be the same and look the same and that's true of the haters too, for them.
Take a look at how the main murderer-Tex Watson- of the August '69 ones is rarely mentioned on these 'Manson' sites, but boy, 'don't we just hate Charlie Susan and Leslie' and somethings.
Good evening Grim, or day
either way hope your doing okay
here you wrote and addressed an issue or more and they were not hard to understand as you stated a fact or pointed to situations such as the court proceedings involving Charlie and those whacky fun loving silly girls we can say are the walking singing trio in the hallways and Charlie just grinned and nodded to the reporters and often said "how ya doin' today."
One thing I gotta say is Charlie was a friendly guy and it did make the days of December '69 to '71 go a little easier to live by from the cell (jail not smartphone)
to the courtroom and all of that legalese bull by both sides.
As you stated their were various scenarios played out and some that Charlie and the ladies would have wanted and it went on.
Charlie, after the trials was more inclined to be defiant and answer questions his way in interviews while the 3 girls, from the trial to several years into their new homes as the guests of the state of California were carrying on like a continuing comedy of errors. Heh
Yet, let's think and look at how so many were growing up (so many now, of course) that had trauma and so much sadness. Alone and down, that sadness and fear, insecurity. So many times, feeling scared and confused at a young tender age and cried.
Like Charlie and Susan
Thanks Brownrice, I would have liked to have been there to hang out with him, Jerry and some of the others for a day. I've been watching some You Tube about him again and saw he did do a year or more in San Quentin. I should read the book of his letters from there to family. His daughter said he was mad at himself and his demons (drugs and women) and suicidal. He supposedly read a good portion of the books in the Denver Library as a youth. Worked on the Southern Pacific railroad 10 years. He could have turned Charlie's girls into carefree boxcar girls haha.
I did see the Grateful Dead three times. At first all I knew was Truckin' and got invited by my friend to join his older sister and her friends at the first of their "farewell" concerts at Winterland, San Francisco, in 1974. Ended up in the front row after two plus hours of marijuana first and second hand smoke inhalation, and when the band came on discovered the true meaning of a wall of sound. Absolute sensory overload, after a few songs retreated with my friend to the empty portions of seats above and slept through much of the show. Now I realize I was there at somewhat the peak of their career and I love a lot of their music. I love Jerry's gentle self- deprecating self and his love of all kinds of music and his insights into that world.
Again, regarding speed, it seems like there were those in the sixties who saw what harm speed did to people and those who thought people on speed were groovy.
Apropos speed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrK9E-u-liQ
From about 69 or so.
I actually have this album from those days.
Great song Shoegazer, awesome guitar work.
Cool!
Glad if you liked it!
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