This is a progress report compiled by Deputy's William Gleason and George Palmer of the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. There are summations of interviews done with Nancy Pitman and Stephanie Schram. Also, the recounting of an interview of Susan Rogers, an inmate at the county jail housed with Susan Atkins. The interview with Rogers did not yield any information except to convey that Susan was blabbing about her exploits to anyone who would listen. Apparently, Ronnie Howard and Virginia Graham were not the only inmates Susan spoke with about her crimes.
The interview of Nancy Pitman has a little more information than Nancy has parted with in other interviews or court testimony. She's quite chatty. Whether or not it is all true is anyone's guess. Nancy does say that it was Juanita Wildebush that gave George Spahn the $5000.00 not Manson. I suppose that's splitting hairs a bit because I'm sure that Manson would point out that if it wasn't for him Juanita would have never known about Spahn Ranch to give George the money.
Then there's the recap of Stephanie Schram interview with Gleason and Palmer. Cielodrive has the Q and A version of this interview posted at his site.
In both the summation and the actual interview Stephanie says that she and Manson visited Dennis Wilson at his home on Sunset. I thought that Dennis let the lease run out at the end of August 1968.
This is supposed to be a progress report on the Hinman murder but there is very little in the document related to his murder.
60 comments:
Dang even Brender snitched on her homies. No honor amongst thieves in this group. Although, I noticed on the first Sadie interview that she leaves Charlie and Mary out of the story.
Snitches get stitches...I mean, dunebuggies
So then was Brender one of the witnesses the defense intended to call? I'd love to read that moment in the transcripts. "Umm is this you who said from jail you think Charlie and some of the others killed Sharon Tate?"
(Kanarek objects). "How can we be sure the sun was in the moon that night in India, Judge?"
Charlie hops up and socks Kanarek in his right ear. "GIVE ME MY DAMN RIGHTS!"
This is supposed to be a progress report on the Hinman murder but there is very little in the document related to his murder
Apart from the title of the report, Hinman isn't even mentioned !
Apparently, Ronnie Howard and Virginia Graham were not the only inmates Susan spoke with about her crimes
A few months back, I remember having a conversation in one of the comments about this with Shoegazer; I mentioned a Nancy Jordon, who appears in Robert Hendrickson's book, "Death To Pigs." She was apparently talking with Susan about killing Sharon Tate before Susan was ever friendly with Virginia Graham or Ronnie Howard. Jordon said that Sadie went to the infirmary for a while and when she returned,
she was assigned a new bunk, which was next to Ronnie Howard's.....
Nancy does say that it was Juanita Wildebush that gave George Spahn the $5000.00 not Manson. I suppose that's splitting hairs a bit
I just take it to mean that the money Charlie gave to George came from the money the Family netted from Juanita.
One noticeable difference that I saw is that the summation claims that Manson threatened to cut off the women's breasts if they dared to disobey him. Stephanie never said that in the interview
She didn't. She said, "Well, he was saying like cutting off part of your body or something like that...." But it's kind of understandable why the report concluded that. Cutting off arms or legs doesn't strike me as a credible threat, cutting off a nose or an ear or fingers is too out there and likely to bring police attention....so there's not too many body parts particular to a female that one could threaten to cut off, that said female might be genuinely frightened by. And one of the scummier papers was saying that Sharon had had her breasts cut off. Stephanie's words about Charlie's threats were in the context of how she put together that members of the Family were responsible for the Cielo murders ~ she had heard rumours of chopped-up bodies.
It's interesting that the Grand Jury hadn't yet happened when this report was typed.
Nice work Grim. I was struggling to grab Nancy Jordon from my migraine destroyed head the other day. All I could remember was the she "balled Charlie" and, that she said he "was real sadistic"
I think you're correct on who this "Susan Rogers" rreally was.
Grim you're probably right about the breast threat. Stephanie could have gestured to her chest when speaking to the deputies. It's conceivable that Stephanie's interview was recorded and when the transcriber typed it out, she couldn't see hand gestures but Gleason and Palmer would have remembered it.
Oh dear! I just realized what day it is.
That's just the kind of great, informative, post we've come know you for, Deb. Thanks for another one.
It's coming down fast ... right now.
What orwhut said... not about the date but about the great informative post :-)
Nice to see new primary sources surfacing. Thanks, Deb.
I wonder what Patricia Krenwinkle and Leslie Van Houten are thinking today?
Thank you orwhut and brownrice! I have a few more reports to share. So stay tuned.
I have been absent from the blog due to my husband being diagnosed with cancer at the beginning of the pandemic. Because hospitals were overwhelmed, he did not get his much-needed surgery for six months and by then his cancer was much worse. Ultimately doctors removed the roof of his mouth and part of his nose in a 15-hour initial operation. He has since had five more surgeries for reconstruction and 33 rounds of radiation. He's much better now and so far there is no cancer remaining. We still have a way to go, his spirits have improved and he's doing more things for himself. The surgery left him disfigured with a greatly diminished sense of taste and smell and he can no longer smile. But things are looking up so if there are no more hiccups along the way, I will be posting more.
DebS, you’re an inspiration. Please know how appreciated you are. I can’t wait to see what else you’ve got in the que!
Sending blessings to you and your husband.
"Stephanie could have gestured to her chest when speaking to the deputies"
This is what I was thinking.
Deb,
I had no idea what you and Mr. S were going through. Now, it's my turn to say, my sentiments are exactly what Rock N Roll said.
Whut
Much love to you and your husband, Deb. Cancer's a fucking nightmare.
Hello Debs I will most definitely say a prayer for your husband I've had two bout's with cancer myself in 014 & again last year I was lucky in the sense I didn't need radiation my type of cancer doesn't respond well to Chemo just tell him to keep fighting it is possible to kick cancers ass
You know i don't see eye on to eye with this blog or most on it, but you guys have to help call out Allegra Lansing and her outright fraud with her fake Straight Satan and disinfo.
Take care Deb, cancer sucks.
So I notice on one of the docs in Deb's recent haul that Juanita is listed at 5'5 and 150 lbs. Everyone says she was fat but that's a normal BMI for a woman of that age and size today.
I guess you had you had to be emaciated to "fit in"
Talk about the most horrendous degree of body shaming imaginable
😪🤬
GG~W said:
So I notice on one of the docs in Deb's recent haul that Juanita is listed at 5'5 and 150 lbs. Everyone says she was fat but that's a normal BMI for a woman of that age and size today
In that interview in December '69, Stephanie made Gypsy out to be not quite fat, but pretty heavy. I have to say, she's never looked that way to me.
I would think the average weight of people in the last 50 years has gone up quite a bit.
grimtraveller said...
GG~W said:
So I notice on one of the docs in Deb's recent haul that Juanita is listed at 5'5 and 150 lbs. Everyone says she was fat but that's a normal BMI for a woman of that age and size today
In that interview in December '69, Stephanie made Gypsy out to be not quite fat, but pretty heavy. I have to say, she's never looked that way to me.
---------------
Having been 18yo back then I can attest that people in general were much thinner. We got out and played in the yard or street as kids. We walked everywhere when we were too young to drive or didn't have a car. Our parents were not our personal taxis. We didn't have our eyes glued to a screen all day, there was less junk food and fast-food places. Look at class pictures from back then, sure, there were a couple of "big boned" people but on the whole people were pretty skinny.
Same with Ruth Ann. In her interview she mentions Gypsy being overweight
Tough crowd
We are only people we were all children once and now we are here
I'm ok you're okay they're all okay
don't say it don't be low
if you can't say hi or smile
we don't want you too near
go thataway for a couple miles
don't do it that's all
don't make fun of people cause 'o their looks
especially you know when they can hear
if you know what I mean
you'll know what I mean
laugh and joke if someone has done some well you know like goofy self inflicted things like creepy-
lemme see- oh yeah heh heh- neck tattoos or wires in their face somewhere
we'll just mention that part of their body ha ha
yet here we see many pics of our old friends from Camp Spahn
and they all looked like people do I think one or two had red hair
now that's having flair
well all the females did look nice and ready for a kiss
I'm telling you don't call anyone 'fat' that is wrong and cruel and doesn't make sense
were all here together
DebS- I'm sorry about what you all are going through and have been- I say prayers and send positive vibes to both of you,
this is Brother Fayez
Thanks for listening
Deb typed:
“Having been 18yo back then I can attest that people in general were much thinner. We got out and played in the yard or street as kids. We walked everywhere when we were too young to drive or didn't have a car. Our parents were not our personal taxis“
This is true. I was 13 at the time of the murders, and we walked or biked everywhere. No parental taxi service.
By the way, all: I was in the neighborhood last week and so drove by and looked at the Waverly house for a bit. After seeing the sites many times over the years it still just really gives me pause to imagine how it was in there that night. So tragic.
Blessings to you and your husband, Deb. Hang in.
Nicely done, Fayez. Happy Thursday to you, dude.
Mario, you sly dog. Are you out there somewhere? You sat back all those years watching researchers wonder whether Kevin in the Hendrickson hit job was an undercover FBI agent etc etc knowing full well he was in the grade above you at Chatsworth as you guys went thru school. Did you play sports together? Did you hold down the back right corner in the school choir?
Who brought the kids from Chats High to the Ranch? A beacon? Random luck? Who sat at the top of the funnel pushing kids in?
It's time to come clean.
I'd forgotten all about Twiggy. Wikipedia says she was still modeling in 1970. Her influence might have contributed to the idea of beauty for some time after.
NO FAT CHICKS
Deb,
You are something special and always have been. I am glad things have improved.
_________
I think the most fascinating part of this is this:
"This interview [of Wilson] was tape recorded and will be retained for further examination."
Thanks to everyone for their concern for my husband and me. We are doing well and closer than ever.
Peter said...
NO FAT CHICKS
I bought my husband a t-shirt that says "Feminist Chicks Dig Me". He loves it. Sounds like you could do with shirt like that!
David, yes! I'd love to hear that interview.
Also interesting Deb, that he as at Sunset. Perchance did Beach Boys official statements....um....misrepresent the truth?
David, I wouldn't put it past the maker of official statements being misleading about Dennis's home base. Though I wonder why the Family did not come back en masse to stay at the home. I guess Manson knew where the lines were drawn at times. I don't get the feeling that Stephanie is lying about the visit.
We know from your previous post on Dennis that there is evidence that Dennis and Charlie were still in contact with each other as of July 1969.
https://www.mansonblog.com/2017/01/when-did-dennis-wilson-finally-sever.html
LOL...yea, I wrote that....
"I bought my husband a t-shirt that says "Feminist Chicks Dig Me". He loves it. Sounds like you could do with shirt like that!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbtUupl2jFw
Small point of clarification, but when Manson went to visit Dennis Wilson with Stephanie Schram, it wasn't at 14400 Sunset-- he'd left that house in August of '68. Rather, Wilson was staying at Gregg Jakobson's place at 818 N. Beverly Glen, directly across the canyon from Cielo Drive.
>>Manson Mythos said...
You know i don't see eye on to eye with this blog or most on it, but you guys have to help call out Allegra Lansing and her outright fraud with her fake Straight Satan and disinfo.<<
MM, I was curious why you're so certain she's perpetuating a hoax. I've only heard the first nine minutes of the conversation that she posted today, so I haven't really been able to make my mind up one way or another about it. Did something he said tip you off?
J Pinnacle said...
Small point of clarification, but when Manson went to visit Dennis Wilson with Stephanie Schram, it wasn't at 14400 Sunset-- he'd left that house in August of '68. Rather, Wilson was staying at Gregg Jakobson's place at 818 N. Beverly Glen, directly across the canyon from Cielo Drive.
---------
We were going by what Stephanie stated on page 4 of the linked report. We know that Dennis was still in touch with Manson as late as July 1969 even though the official line from Beach Boys management was that Dennis didn't have anything to do with Manson after August 1968.
Deb--
You Said: >>We were going by what Stephanie stated on page 4 of the linked report. We know that Dennis was still in touch with Manson as late as July 1969 even though the official line from Beach Boys management was that Dennis didn't have anything to do with Manson after August 1968.<<
Yes, I'm aware they were still in touch through July '69. I'm not sure if it was a concerted effort within the Beach Boys organization to supress the duration of Dennis & Manson's involvement, or if that's just the way the story's been portrayed through the years, but we know from Schram and others (Jakobson, Stanley Shapiro) that they were in contact at least until shortly before the murders. However, my statement regarding his place of residence was in response to your previous post:
>>David, I wouldn't put it past the maker of official statements being misleading about Dennis's home base. Though I wonder why the Family did not come back en masse to stay at the home. I guess Manson knew where the lines were drawn at times. I don't get the feeling that Stephanie is lying about the visit.<<
...and starring "JD" as Al Springer, the biker with OCD.
Saw this blurb today.
The Beach Boys: A California Saga — Part Two: Tales of Hawthorne
Tom Nolan, Rolling Stone, 11 November 1971
******
DENNIS WILSON, toenails tough like brazil nuts, has been surfing for 13 years. It was Dennis who came out of the water and told Brian what it was like out there. It was Brian who fooled the world.
Dennis was asked if it was true Charles Manson wrote the words of 'Never Learn Not to Love', an eerie opus on the 20-20 album with an ominous message: Surrender... I'm your kind... Come in, closer, come in, closer, closer.
"That's right, he did."
Why didn't you give him the label credit?
"He didn't want that. He wanted money instead. I gave him about a hundred thousand dollars' worth of stuff.
"But I don't think you should put that in your story. I see no reason the story should mention him at all."
Another Beach Boy, an anonymous one, is a little more talkative about it. "Charlie struck me as a very intense and dogmatic hype. I didn't want nothin' to do with Charlie. He was living with Dennis at the time. Dennis was just divorced; I suppose the life-style appealed to him. Perhaps I have more sexual inhibitions, moral strictures. I wasn't into drugs at that point, which was Charlie's way of conditioning his little friends, turning them into egoless entities. I wasn't going for his pitch.
"Dennis ran up the largest gonorrhea bill in history the time the whole family got the clap. He took them all to a Beverly Hills doctor — it took something like a thousand dollars in penicillin.
"We've got several eight-track tapes of Charlie and the girls that Dennis cut, maybe even some 16 track. Just chanting, fucking, sucking, barfing. Maybe we'll put it out in the fall. Call it Death Row.
"It was a million laughs, believe me."
Dennis said he didn't want all this mentioned.
"Just say Dennis was the farthest out in life-style of any of us, having known Charles Manson before he made the headlines. And that he requested you not to bring it up."
Toenails tough like Brazil nuts? Barrrrrrffffff!
I wouldn't put any attempt if a cover up past Mike Love...he was and, is a dick. He only talks about CM now in a revisionist manner and, because it puts a bit of attention on him and his extraordinary ego.
The relationship between him and Dennis was brutal. Love tried to screw both Dennis and Brian regularly. Dennis ended up marrying his daughter - the ultimate burner Mike Love
- Another Beach Boy, an anonymous one (Bruce)
- Dennis ran up the largest gonorrhea bill in history (probably Mike)
- It was a million laughs, believe me (Brian? Steven Despar?)
- Just say Dennis was the farthest out in life-style of any of us (again, my guess is Mike)
Dried plantains
Blogger Doug said...
Dried plantains
That reminds me of my friend back in the sixties. He hung a banana peel up with the intention of smoking it when it was dry. He said it rotted.
Smokin banana peels...lol...fortunately, that stopped being a "thing" by the time I hit eigth grade in 1978!
Smokin Banana Peels
https://youtu.be/gJZJsKgtbd8
Thanks for the link, Doug. My friend's story was the one and only time I ever heard of the practice. He doesn't even remember it.
What - if we remember it, we weren't there, right 🤔😀
I guess the one we all most likely DO remember is Donovan's "Mellow Yellow"
Here's a link to the whole 1960s banana situation. It's a good article.
https://culture.org/electrical-bananas/
Deb,
Thank you for the link. It really was a good article.
My friend was a Donovan fan and that jives with his interest in bananas.
Doug said...
What - if we remember it, we weren't there, right 🤔😀
Doug,
My friend says that period of time is a blur. That must mean he was there or at least kinda there.
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