Carol is #55 down below. She's located between Jack and Ruth Gordon. The photo is from the same yearbook and Barbara and Keith Carradine. You in there too, X?
As is often the case, Buntline found Carol's photo for us. Does anyone know when she was arrested?
30 comments:
"X" alleges that there was a lesser known Spahn raid in Spring/Summer 1969 which conveniently had no records.
Of the mugshots, most of them can be tied to the Spahn or Barker raids or other reasons that we know of - Mendocino, murdering people etc
Once we remove them, we know about Jack Gordon, Barbara Cline and Carol Loveless, and we are left with Charles Allen Beard, Stephen Palazzo, Charlee Griffin, Thomas Galella and Raymond Petrizzo.
Buntline typed:
Once we remove them, we know about Jack Gordon, Barbara Cline and Carol Loveless, and we are left with Charles Allen Beard, Stephen Palazzo, Charlee Griffin, Thomas Galella and Raymond Petrizzo.
I'm pretty sure Charles Allen Beard is the same person as the "Chuck Green" mentioned in Squeaky's "Reflexion". He was a 17-year old hanging around the Family in 1969. According to Lynn, both of his parents were L.A. cops, and he was hauled off for the carjacking and rape of a woman in her 60s, and never seen again at Spahn. The crime allegedly happened right on Santa Susanna Pass Rd.
I could spend hours on end exploring any/all of your incredible treasure trove...I'm definitely IN whenever you have the time and energy to post whatever you've got tucked away!!
Cheers
Whoa!
I wonder if he was involved with Reet Jervison's slaughter
He sounds deranged
Gorodish said... I'm pretty sure Charles Allen Beard is the same person as the "Chuck Green" mentioned in Squeaky's "Reflexion".
Ah thanks. Yes, I think you're absolutely correct.
Doug,
I had a similar whoa! moment when I read that. Maybe someone will dig up the result of Beard's trial on the car jacking and rape charges.
I've had a skim through the California newspaper archives, but no joy so far.
Aside from his birth and arrest, he's quite elusive. I had a couple of suspects but have now ruled them out.
I wasn't able to find much of anything myself...
Gorodish said...
Charles Allen Beard*... According to Lynn, both of his parents were L.A. cops
'Mr. X,' in his interview with H. Allegra Lansing, claimed that Loveless might also have had parents in Law Enforcement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQBcdmFBM-I
16:32 "One of the girls--Carol(Loveless)--her dad was the Sheriff for LA County"
-------------------
*Dude had a pretty impressive beard for a 17-yr old!
The rape is described on page 318 of "Reflexion". The pseudonym Lynette gave him was "Chuck Grey". Her book is chronological, so it appears that this Chuck' rape arrest was in the fall of 1968. She has his age at 17, but on Deemer's list his DOB is listed as 12/31/1951...which would have made him 16 at the time. Since he was a juvenile, you probably wouldn't find anything about his arrest and trial.
..and starviego, yes, that is a pretty decent beard for a teenager...
Idk if this thought exactly pertains to this discussion, it might, but anytime I see someone saying so-and-so's parent(s) were in LE or military intelligence etc, I always get those omg we're doing this in a vacuum feelings.
A lot of it goes back to McGowan I think. John Denver's dad was this, another parent was that. Overall, I'd say that being in law enforcement is pretty common in America. Many families moved up in those jobs. I have police and military in my family. None of them know any secrets about the secret cabal running things...
Or do they?
But seriously, cops' kids run wild like preachers' kids sometimes do. It's all that discipline at home. I'm thinking X is using his being a yokel and knowing some ancillary people to insert himself into the parts of the Manson story we can all repeat verbatim.
"I gave Brian Lushanskenkomalenko the shirt Charlie took of his back."
Gorodish said...
.. yes, that is a pretty decent beard for a teenager.
I wasn't even shaving until after I graduated from college. "Charles Allen Beard"
Are they mocking us? How do we even know that was his real name? 17 MY ASS!
Even before Lyn’s book, Chuck was mentioned a number of times.
Brooks Poston says that “Chuck Green was at the Gresham Street house and stayed behind to watch it when as the family left” in the Watson trial.
https://www.cielodrive.com/brooks-poston-trial-testimony-082571.php
Ella Jo Bailey mentions “Chuck Green” being on the boardwalk when the police came on the Sunday night after the Hinman Murder during the Davis-Hinman/Shea trial (Volume 21 page 3102)
https://www.cielodrive.com/people-v-davis/Vol21.pdf
Fitzgerald asks DeCarlo if he know’s “Chuck Beard” in Manson-TLB volume 90 page page 10606.
http://www.cielodrive.com/people-v-manson-atkins-vanhouten-krenwinkel/04-trial/Vol90.pdf
Deemers on Beard/Green.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150709003539/http://mansonsbackporch.com/uploads/3/3/0/4/3304832/4700145_orig.jpg
@Saint C
Notice Chuck’s ID mark (“Coors”). Anxiously awaiting this years final HS article.
@Buntline
Thanks for the yearbook find on Carol. The combination of “Mr X” and yourself has helped to clarify the relationship and significance of 3 mugshots.
Right on ToF. I love your timeliness on these posts.
I still can't grow a beard and I'm seventeen a few times over.
So, a 16 year old who is 6 ft tall with a thick beard, hairy chest, and a Coors tattoo. Something amiss here?
"I'm a ghost of a phantom of a shadow in the heart of your children!"
- Odenkirk
The "Fiesta! Eat at Chili's""ad brightly taking up the whole page under the Mansonblog headline is a striking juxtaposition
Oh no, Doug, he's not in anyone's children. He just likes to say that.
So "Chuck Green" was definitely at Spahn in July 1969 according to Ella Jo Bailey's testimony, which doesn't fit with the Reflexion timeline.
Buntline said:
So "Chuck Green" was definitely at Spahn in July 1969 according to Ella Jo Bailey's testimony
Kasabian also testifies that she slept with a boy named “Chuck” (in addition to Watson and Manson and others)
Volume 36 page 5566
http://www.cielodrive.com/people-v-manson-atkins-vanhouten-krenwinkel/04-trial/Vol36.pdf
Thanks Mr Fresca. Great find. There's definitely some mystery around this character.
A ballsy move to give your name as Charles Manson to the police. A risky move, one suspects. Why Deemer also has him down as Tex is anyone's guess.
Odenkirk
https://youtu.be/rLC-GVSVRWk
Who is no. 57?
#57 SEE HERE:
https://www.mansonblog.com/2021/01/filippo-tenerelli-aka-raymond-petrozzi.html
Buntline typed:
So "Chuck Green" was definitely at Spahn in July 1969 according to Ella Jo Bailey's testimony, which doesn't fit with the Reflexion timeline.
Read the transcript again. Ella mentions "Chuck Green" as one of a group of a half dozen men, also including Manson, Davis, Vance, DeCarlo, and Grogan. Scroll down about 3 pages, and she mentions the same group of men getting out of a car later that morning. Except this time it's Charles Watson, not Chuck Green. My guess is that Ella was confused and misnamed Watson during testimony. Also, it is not a stretch that, in the bizarre Spahn universe of a bazillion interchangeable aliases, that Watson would occasionally use "Chuck Green".
I wonder if "Chuck Green" is the MF equivalent of "Dale Nixon" in the music world?
A catch-all name used by many to participate somewhat anonymously or, to avoid litigation...
Just a thought.
Three Dale Nixon's off the top of my head...
https://www.discogs.com/artist/318897-Dale-Nixon
https://www.discogs.com/artist/624277-Dale-Nixon-2
https://www.discogs.com/artist/597412-Dale-Nixon-3
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