Gorodish has shared his scans of the Family Jams CD with us. Most people do not buy Manson's music even if the profit from that music does not go to any of those convicted. Manson's and the Family's music is available to listen to online for free in various places. What we don't get by listening to the music online are the goodies that might come with the production.
The Family Jams album is the most listenable, to me, out of the rather large catalog of music that has been produced since the arrests and convictions. The tunes have a catchy quality in a simple folksy way.
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| Front Cover |
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| Back Cover |
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| Inside Front Cover |
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| Booklet Cover |
46 comments:
Charlie talking about bicycles again... Is the naked babe Sandy?
Gypsy
Check. Very talented lady
Nice post. Would love to see the original photos used without the text.
" ... ♫♪♫ Git on HOME!!!♫♪♫"
You can see some of the recordings for the second CD in the Hendrickson movies, together with plenty of film and stills shots. They give a good view of the kids at Spahn and Barker, although Robert's over dub in the second movie is a little OTT. In these movies there are, hover, quite a few people I was unable to identify. Remember they were shot after the murders and around the time of the trials, so I guess many people will have come and gone from the core group. There were of course always any number of runaways, etc. who weren't around for long anyway.
I still can't work out who's singing on each track but I think Brenda and Gypsy carry much of the arrangements and harmonies. As 60s music goes, and unlike Manson's own stuff, a lot of this is quite listenable.
Wait, who is that wearing the sunglasses?
AustinAnn74 typed:
Wait, who is that wearing the sunglasses?
Beausoleil, from a mid-70s prison shoot.
"When you see the children with x's on their head, if you dare to look at them, soon you will be dead."
Classic Lyrics from a Classic Group of people....
I am sure that Steve Grogan had some talent, and some here can contest to that better than I as they have heard him play live. I am sure that a few of them had some real appreciable talents in music and art.
But what a bunch of lunatics. Seriously. How did some of them get so crazy so fast over a guy they knew less than two years total?? Sandy and Lynn are the two best examples in my opinion.
Sandy to this days still spouts the same shit as fervently as ever. And Lynn lol
I watched the President get whisked out of a press conference the other day because of a threat that happened outside of the White House. A guy was shot for "SAYING" he had a gun, and was nowhere near the President. How in the world did Lynn get away with pulling a gun on a President ( loaded or not) just a few feet away? She had to know that she was taking an enormous chance with her life. She had to be outside of her mind to pull a stunt like that?
Both of them dedicated and would risk their life for a criminal they had known less than a few years. I do not get it at all?
The question to me is was Charlie that special really? ( cause I have also read plenty of people who said they weren't impressed with him at all, or they were afraid of him and fled)
OR, did the drugs have some effect on a an already disturbed brain that could cause this kind of lunacy to occur? What is it about these two? All of the others seem to snap out of it, or outgrow it. Not the two of them. From what I read over the years- Charlie was not even sexual frequently with either? So why did they become so much more psychotic over him and his cause than the others?
I did not read Lynns book- but I somehow feel she never answers that question. Or maybe she does and you just have to really pay attention and read between lines?? But I am not going to bother and Anything else she or Sandy has to say in my estimation is mashed potatoes. When a person says stabbing a pregnant innocent woman as ok because it was an "Act of War"- I just have to stop listening. Someone should tell Mrs. Goode even in War there are certain things that would still be considered a crime and killing civilians and children is not ok even in war. I think it wouldn't matter to her much.
If you want to listen to a bunch of dirty, homeless, criminals sing songs Charlie wrote, while they were attending his trial every day insulting/mocking the families of his victims- You certainly should start here. You could do much worse when listening to Manson's music than this collection....
Just don't forget who is performin it and why :)
Cool stuff.
But, ok, so someone help me out.
The non-Family- Family- acolytes of the Infinite Charlie Soul- whatever......I'll call them NFFAOTCS (or N-fiotics) because that sounds like one of those 60's organizations. N-fiotics were anti-war activists there at Spahn or were protesting corporate/establishment excesses or they were part of a pro environment movement and members of the Sierra Club. And.......
They supported the plantation system as a way to get back to the earth.
Did I read that right?
If I did that's amazing. None of that never came up in 1968-70 when they were at Spahn. Well, except the racist stuff.
The liner notes, however, are a wonderful screen capture of narcissistic thinking, especially from a negative narcissist. His music comes from God. His father is God. He therefore must be Christ but is too humble to say it. You have to figure that out and only the tuned in can figure that out.
The 'people of the 60's'- his followers- were perfect, when they did stuff.
Reading these liner notes and nodding your head in agreement is how you lose your soul.
Thanks to the OP for posting these scans--those recollections from Blue and Red are new to me. Interesting that the Beach Boys were (if we can believe Blue) talking about having Dennis Wilson committed if he abandoned the band to follow the Family. This vibes with some of the contemporaneous articles on Dennis that I'm sure you've all seen where he talks about living with space ladies in the desert. Then again we have Tex Watson telling one of his prison shrinks (in Watson's psychiatric profile documents) that Dennis called him a "sheep" when Tex told him he was going to follow Charlie. So much seemingly contradictory information throughout this saga.
Interestingly, Dennis's brother Brian actually was committed to an inpatient psychiatric hospital in 1968 and suffered seriously as a result. Prior to the hospitalization he was still largely responsible for the band's songwriting and record production, but after he was released his musical productivity dropped off precipitously.
Another seeming contradiction is Blue's statement that "the last thing Charlie wanted was a music career"-- I mean, if this was the case then why get involved with such quintessentially Hollywood types as Gary Stromberg and Terry Melcher? I believe the more likely explanation is that Manson wanted to get his message out via an album release, but balked at any of the rock star trappings that Hollywood producers would typically insist upon: hip attire, image management, session musicians, etc. The rock star game was not one he was equipped to play.
Red's comment that "the guys started composing a lot of music in the desert" sort of contradicts the "all songs written by Charles Manson" blurb on the first page. Might be that Bobby, Clem and Paul had a bigger hand in some of these desert songs than initially thought. Interestingly the track listed here as "Give Your Love (to Be Free)" is actually the one Paul refers to as "Insane Train" in his autobiography.
Proteus said:
although Robert's over dub in the second movie is a little OTT
I have to say, some of it is so OTT that it made me seriously laugh. He had a very interesting voice.
Apart from the two Manson documentaries and one other film, I have never been able to locate any details of other films Robert made. Does anyone know where I can find links to a résumé of his ?
St. Circumstance said:
"When you see the children with x's on their head, if you dare to look at them, soon you will be dead."
Classic Lyrics from a Classic Group of people....
No worse really, than "Let this be a sermon, I mean everything I said/ Baby, I'm determined that I'd rather see you dead" or "I'm going down to shoot my lady/ Coz I caught her messing round with another man/...And I gave her the gun, I shot her !" or many other "revolutionary" lyrics from popular artists ~ some of whom lived their words !
But what a bunch of lunatics
You said it ! 😀 😎 👀 🤓 🥵
Seriously. How did some of them get so crazy so fast over a guy they knew less than two years total??
i. Taking hold of and misusing a freedom that they hadn't been adequately and responsibly {in some cases} prepared for.
ii. The attention of an older, more savvy man in the lives of so many youngsters that were at odds with their dads.
iii. Times that were a'changing in ways the USA had never previously experienced en masse.
iv. LSD and other psychedelics.
v. Sex and its associated jealousy.
vi. The legitimacy of searching for meaning in life that could no longer be satisfied by the American dream.
St. Circumstance said:
She had to be outside of her mind to pull a stunt like that?
Did she ? Her motivation was to cast attention on Manson's {and the others} plight at having not been able to represent himself in his trial. If she was outside of a rational mind, it wasn't in her actions, it was in the thought process that framed those actions.
Both of them dedicated and would risk their life for a criminal they had known less than a few years. I do not get it at all?
Do you actually want to get it ? You do pose some great questions and they lead to great discussions and I'll long be a cheerleader for you on that wise, but.......I don't get the impression that you really want answers, not really. Not answers that enable you to reach a conclusion that you can run with and put out there and defend/back up, even though you might not like what you're defending/backing up.
was Charlie that special really?
Obviously he was ~ to some people. For a season or two. And to a few more a little longer.
Charlie was not even sexual frequently with either?
Never underestimate the effect on some people of being made love to by someone they consider can "see my and others' innate brightness layered over with our personal histories" or the residual guilt that may linger having been pregnant with that person's child but not having wanted the baby and feeling a certain relief when the baby miscarried.
That was some "little league" psychology ! 🥶
St. Circumstance said:
I did not read Lynns book- but I somehow feel she never answers that question. Or maybe she does and you just have to really pay attention and read between lines
Well, like I said to you with Simon Davies' book a few years back, you should read the book. There are so many things you might not say that you currently say, if you read it. You might not agree with or like what you read but you'll find so many of the answers to the questions you pose.
But I am not going to bother and Anything else she or Sandy has to say in my estimation is mashed potatoes. When a person says stabbing a pregnant innocent woman as ok because it was an "Act of War"- I just have to stop listening
I guess that's where we differ. If Hitler or Bin Laden or Assad or old time slave traders {on both sides of the equation} or the leaders of ISIS or whoever want to tell me why they perpetrate[d] the horrors they do/did, the thinking behind their depravity, man, I'm all ears. Questions are all very well and extremely important but as an end in themselves, they're pretty pointless to me. I'm sometimes curious as to what people think will happen if they actually take on board what someone whom they find odious says about their life, observations and the actions of theirs that repulse us. Are they somehow afraid that they just might be able to see what the person they despise can see ?
I can faithfully report that understanding what a person [with whom one doesn't agree] means and even finding some agreement in certain parts of their oeuvre doesn't automatically turn you into them or make one a devoted devotee. But it doesn't half round your vision.
St. Circumstance said:
Someone should tell Mrs. Goode even in War there are certain things that would still be considered a crime and killing civilians and children is not ok even in war. I think it wouldn't matter to her much
The problem you have with that logic ST can be summed up in 2 words ~ "collateral damage." The sad and simple reality is that virtually every nation or group that feels they are justified in their 'war' has little use for the rules of war when it doesn't suit them and the little guys have seen the big guys do it often enough to pick that up and apply it themselves. It wouldn't matter to a Sandy type character because they've so often seen that it doesn't matter greatly at governmental level. And that becomes their perfect justification that they can trot out every time.
And they have a point. An incomplete and poor one that can't justify what they've said or done, but one that can't be ignored or dismissed lightly either.
If you want to listen to a bunch of dirty, homeless, criminals sing songs Charlie wrote, while they were attending his trial every day insulting/mocking the families of his victims- You certainly should start here
Would it be any more palatable if they had been clean criminals that lived in apartments singing songs Chuck Berry, Merle Haggard, Phil Spector, Lauren Hill, The Mamas and the Papas, AC/DC and Ike Turner wrote ?
Just on a point of interest as this is often said, were the actual families of the victims mocked and insulted by the Manson troupe during the trial ? Are there actually records of this ?
David said:
None of that never came up in 1968-70 when they were at Spahn. Well, except the racist stuff
I guess that's because the racist stuff was the point. They supported the plantation system by extension. As long as they weren't the ones out in the fields doing the hard unpaid labour.
Nobody ever said HS was well thought out and eminently sensible, just that it wasn't that hard to believe if one didn't really think ��♀️ too tough about it !
Grim as always you make some good points. A few of them are not so good in my estimation, but lets let others decide after reading both of our comments. I know both of us well enough to know we would go on forever about the topics we disagree on ...
We are both that type of person lol But I will specifically answer one of your rebuttals that I feel strongest about :)
She was outside of her mind to pull a gun on a president. Whatever her motivation was- Environment, Charlie- it doesn't matter. 99.9 per cent of the time- you are going to be killed for doing something like that. committing suicide for Charlie or any other reason is not a decision that is made by a stable mind. She put on a robe and set up herself up in a robe and approached multiple secret service members and pulled out a gun. It was exactly her ACTIONS that I am saying were nuts lol
and personally, if it were clean cut people, in a nice, clean, apartment signing mamas and papas songs- it might not sound as good as Family Jams does to some people- but it would be MUCH MORE Palatable to me :)
Thanks for your thoughts Grim. Those were mine. I respect both.
:)
I have this cd in storage
I also have the other vest, unfinished that was made for Bobby
cannot recall is there a photo of that in the cd?
ColScott:
I get confused with the various vests but there are detailed and lingering closeups of some of the girls embroidering vests in the two Hendrickson vids. Not always clear [to me at least] which girls and which vests, but certainly one of them had several switches of hair attached to the collar.
The colonel collects murder memorabilia what what?
Proteus
I know think the one on the cover is the one I have- the Bobby one- they are making it on s atreet corner youtube vid iirc
Panamint- yes you converted me- memorabilia, rubbings and some Tate pubes are in my collection
Still my favorite part of the Hendrickson movie when the interviewer says "your baby lived but Tate's died" and you can see through Sandy's big blues right into her empty head as she stumbles around for a response.
Probably the best thing we have is Lynette's jacket from her 1987 escape. It's a cool collection imo
Thank you for the photos! In regards to the handmade vest, or vests, are there any quotes from the creators about what these vests specifically symbolized for the Family or for CM? The energy around the vest seems ceremonial/magickal, what was the impetus or intention for the vest's ongoing importance to the Family members? The rainbow-mashup freestyle approach reminds me of the early painted buses, but the vest seems much more significant.
St. Circumstance said:
you make some good points. A few of them are not so good in my estimation
In mine too ! 😄
She was outside of her mind to pull a gun on a president. Whatever her motivation was- Environment, Charlie- it doesn't matter. 99.9 per cent of the time- you are going to be killed for doing something like that. committing suicide for Charlie or any other reason is not a decision that is made by a stable mind
Well, I didn't say she had a stable mind. But then, people with minds I don't consider as stable govern and have governed countries for centuries.
I'm not so sure that in 1975 you'd without a doubt get killed for doing what she did. After all, she barely even got hit and Sara Jane Moore a couple of weeks later didn't get killed when she actually fired at the Prez. When looking back on it she said she thought it was the right way to actively express her anger. Though some people have mental health issues, I don't think an unstable mind automatically = mental illness.
I also don't think Squeaky was of the mind that she was committing suicide for Charlie because the very nature of her act was to try to get attention onto what she saw as Charlie's plight and that couldn't have been known if she were dead. I think she was feeling guilty that Charlie and the women were serving life sentences while she was pounding the streets free. Pat by that point had already been getting at her about this.
But unstable ? You'll get no argument from me there ! Mind you, I don't think it is always true that an unstable mind can't make a rational decision.
GrimTraveler Says
Would it be any more palatable if they had been clean criminals that lived in apartments singing songs Chuck Berry, Merle Haggard, Phil Spector, Lauren Hill, The Mamas and the Papas, AC/DC and Ike Turner wrote ?
Euuuhhhh AC/DC wqas formed in 1973 and didn t get ,,Outa Ozz,, for the Main Public until after their Debut Album High Voltage was released in 1975... So, NO AC/DC at Spahn for inspiration at the Family Jams.. That was left for Richard Ramirez in the Eighties.
HellzBellz said:
Euuhh AC/DC was formed in 1973 and didn't get Outa Oz for the Main Public until after their Debut Album High Voltage was released in 1975...So, NO AC/DC at Spahn for inspiration at the Family Jams..
I guess my point was a bit obscure. I was alluding to the point that there have been many criminals down the years that have made music {some of whom were murderers} that we and the world at large love to listen to and sing. I mentioned some of them. I mentioned AC⚡DC because of Phil Rudd. None of the artists I mentioned had anything to do with being an inspiration to the Family and their music. I was making a point about singling them out on account of them being dirty and homeless and singing the songs of a criminal. Rap, blues and country and western fans among others have been doing that since before those genres even had a name !
Night stalker loved acdc (esp.the song night prowler). He dropped an acdc hat at one of his first attacks.
Me personally, i learned all my dance moves from Angus
Ricky 6 liked AC/DC.
@ GrimTraveller
Yeah okay .... Kinda ,Got It, Still its a little confusing because all of the other Artists are outa that TimeFrame AND Area... I DO NOT listen to Rap/Hip Hop ...So didnt even know who Lauryn Hill was/is .... I dont Understand the AC/DC thing though... ,because of Phil Rudd,... You mean the Kidzz Gloryfied AC/DC because Rudd had an 8 Month House-Arrest Sentence ?
@ Dan S
Night stalker loved acdc (esp.the song night prowler). He dropped an acdc hat at one of his first attacks.
Hence my Ramirez comment
HellzBellz said...
its a little confusing because all of the other Artists are outa that TimeFrame AND Area
My point was a general one. St was kind of having a pop at those that like the Family's music. He threw in things that have no relevance to anything {dirty, homeless} and spoke of criminals, implying that this is one of the things that makes it not cool to listen to their music. I was just pointing out that there are lots of criminals that have made music that loads of people love and have loved. All the people I mentioned are criminals of some description or are bands that involve members that spent time in jail or near enough.
I DO NOT listen to Rap/Hip Hop ...So didnt even know who Lauryn Hill was/is
She spent 3 months in jail for tax evasion but not for reasons that one might think one would evade paying your dues. She was in the Fugees and did one huge album, "The miseducation of Lauryn Hill." It's pretty good and very accessible.
I dont Understand the AC/DC thing though...because of Phil Rudd, You mean the Kidz Gloryfied AC/DC because Rudd had an 8 Month House-Arrest Sentence ?
He planned to have someone killed ! He doesn't deny it. Fortunately, it never took place. Either way, he's a criminal. And he was a good solid drummer in a heavy band that was stellar in their hey day.
@ GrimTraveler says;
My point was a general one. St was kind of having a pop at those that like the Family's music. He threw in things that have no relevance to anything {dirty, homeless} and spoke of criminals, implying that this is one of the things that makes it not cool to listen to their music. I was just pointing out that there are lots of criminals that have made music that loads of people love and have loved. All the people I mentioned are criminals of some description or are bands that involve members that spent time in jail or near enough.
Ahhhh Grim... Kinda got it now in this explanation.
Sorrie Maybe Language has a little to do NOT understanding all as is/was.
When reading first I just could NOT understand the Conection between Family in 69 and Musicians You mentioned.
And on the points I mentioned. We got a different view/meaning on things I guess, But thats Okay ....
Although on this I FULLY AGREE: ,,And he was a good solid drummer in a heavy band that was stellar in their hey day,,
Thanks Grimm for making Yourself clear and eeeeuhhh I rest my Case !! ha ha ha little joke eeyhhhh
Grtz H.B.
HellzBellz said...
Although on this I FULLY AGREE:
I saw AC/DC live in '82 and couldn't hear for 36 hours after ! and I had an interview the next day ! Needless to say, I didn't get the job.
Yeah...seen em a few times ...first time also 82 and I think that was the same Monsters of Rock tour in 82 where Yours was Donnington I guess. Then later in 91 and 95 again. Yeah they are pretty ,,Loud,, but thats how its Played man !! owh little tidbit here ...Bonn Scott died on my 15th Birthday,(Feb.19th 1980) and Pre Internet we got the News the next day here in Netherlands... DEVASTATED my Idol died and Bday Party was canceled ofcourse. And needles to say its a reminder every year on my BirthDay....
Wow, so your birthday that year was a Tuesday....the day before, my sister turned 16 and the Saturday following yours, I turned 17. At that point I hadn't heard AC/DC but I'd heard of them. I was a newcomer to heavy music at the time and I was wanting to hear the music of all these bands I'd been reading about, of which one was AC/DC. I didn't get to hear their stuff till the December of '80. Funnily enough, it was "Back in black" which I thought was brilliant. But then I went backwards with their catalogue and the 4 preceding it were even better. Although when I saw them live {it was at Wembley Arena} Brian Johnson was the vocalist, I concluded very early on that he couldn't hold a candle to Bon Scott, either as a singer, a lyricist or a general presence. He's good, he's alive.....but he was never Bon Scott who, for me, is one of the funniest lyricists ever, although he was also pretty deep and serious if one is prepared to see that element of him.
Actually, now I think of it, Charlie Manson was quite a deep lyricist in some of his songs. To me, quite a few of them just cry "I'm hurting and nobody cares and so why should I care about anyone ?" which isn't the braver route to take, but doesn't detract from the depth of feeling.
I was fortunate to have seen Bon & AC/DC wipe the floor with (my then favourite) Aerosmith on 25 July 1978 in Vancouver
GAMECHANGER
http://www.ac-dc.net/archive/acdc_tour_history.php?date_id=1064
I was hoping someone might have information about any ceremonial significance/symbolism of the handmade vests. Even something anecdotal? Somehow this thread turned into a discussion about AC/DC :/ It seems like the vests might have been an attempt to create a Motorcycle gang-type 'colors' for family members? But only one vest was finished, and Col. actually has the unfinished one? Was there a particular family member who was most connected to /invested in the creation of the vest(s)?
Gene Aquamarine said:
I was hoping someone might have information about any ceremonial significance/symbolism of the handmade vests. Even something anecdotal? Somehow this thread turned into a discussion about AC/DC
Is that a problem ?
If you want blood....
Early AC/DC is great, I'm a fan! I got off the train after "Thunderstruck", however. Lately they're the typical bloated arena rock laurel-resters, using distribution connections via stores like Wal-Mart to buttress their sagging brand/identity. Iron Man 3 soundtrack? Seriously? That might have been the all-time low point for a formerly-relevant hard-rock band."Problem Child" is one of all time favorites though :) But I digress, does anyone have any (interesting/relevant) information on the vests? Will I make it out of this blog.........without a bullet in my back! Jailbreak!
Middlin' after thunderstruck for sure. Last great song. They were 1 great song an album since BinB and all great albums b4 BinB.
"Angus,is it true that you've made the same album 11 times?"
"No, that's not true at all. We've done it 14 times!"
Gene Aquamarine said...
does anyone have any (interesting/relevant) information on the vests?
Apparently, Bruce used to wear Charlie's vest once Charlie was banged up in LA county jail.
@grimtraveller thank you! I'll attempt to follow up on that lead. The vests are interesting , handmade objects that seem to be made with a lot of intention. but that could just be my projection onto them. Just art/fashion or something more? If it was just fashion it seems like more would have been created, more people would have been wearing a belt or a hat or a vest in this kind of 'style'. I rememberer once reading that some people claimed Manson held some kind of occult office or title (can't remember the title) , surely a mythic character like that would need some kind of ceremonial garb, the vest would maybe fit the bill for this.
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