On an unrelated note, December was MansonBlog's best month ever statistically. We eclipsed November of 2017 (Manson's death) by about 6700 page views. That's pretty astounding. Thank you everyone for making this blog a success. We appreciate every one of you.
About the only thing I could find on Sheriff Curtis was this:
https://mcindependentnews.com/2019/02/hawthorne-airlines-flight-crashed-50-years-ago-this-week/ "The “Gambler’s Flight” would roll rescuer’s snake-eyes when an Air Force helicopter crashed at the wreck scene. Three Army officials as well as two members of Inyo County escaped injury. Inyo County Sheriff Merrill Curtis, cracked a rib and irritated an old back injury and had to be hospitalized."
*Refers to crash of Hawthorne Nevada Airlines Douglas DC-3 N15570 Flight 708 en route from Hawthorne, Nevada to Burbank, California. With thirty-five passengers and crew, the plane went down on 2/18/69 near Mt. Whitney in the Sierra Nevadas west of Lone Pine, Inyo County.
It took six months for the wreck to be found--on Aug 8, 1969:
https://www.ocregister.com/2011/09/28/facebook-revives-plane-crash-mystery/ The next day, on what would have been Patty’s 22nd birthday, Nick heard on the news that The Gambler’s Special had been found. It was all over TV, along with news that pregnant actress Sharon Tate and her house guests had been found stabbed to death in Los Angeles, the first of the Charles Manson “family” murders.
I seem to remember someone saying Charlie and Company reached a crashed plane before the authorities and looted the wreckage. Does anyone know if that's the alleged plane.
From Ed Sanders in his book on Charles Manson titled 'The Family' ( pg142):
"Also, on February 18, 1969, a DC-3 "Gamblers' SpeciaL" loaded up with a drunk pilot and thirty-five gamblers crashed into the snows of Mt. Whitney near Bishop, California in a flight from Hawthorne, Nevada to Long Beach, California. According to the tale, the plane remained buried in deep snow until summer when the snow melted. The plane and dead occupants were located but supposedly all valuables and cash had been stripped from the gamblers, booty valued at a quarter of a million dollars or so.
"The finger of blame has pointed naturally at Manson and his dune buggy battalion. One defected family says, though it is hard to believe, that pieces of the crashed airplane were used by the family to adorn their dune buggies."
-------
Though of course the Mansons could not have reached the area--it was far too remote and rugged--and ice cold to boot.
The NTSB investigated the crash and issued a very thorough report. If there was any merit to the claim either pilot was drunk, we’d expect to see it mentioned in the report. We don’t.
This was a discount airline taking gamblers to a small Nevada town for a few hours. Nothing about it screams high rollers to me. Look at it another way: to get to the claimed figure of $250,000, the average for each person on board would have to roughly correspond to the US median annual income for the time. I just don’t buy it.
He makes the surprising claim that the Inyo County Sheriffs Dept basically refused to participate in the Barker Raids, contrary to everything written about that event.
IF he is right, I am wondering if the covert operators used any info re the alleged looting of the crash site to hold it over Sheriff Merrill Curtis to compel his cooperation in making sure Charlie wasn't bothered.
Certainly it is true that it was the National Park Service, and not the LAPD, LASO, the FBI, or the Inyo County Sheriffs Dept, that lowered the boom on Charlie and Family.
What would be the purpose of such a debate? What rules would debaters be expected to follow? In what sort of forum would such a debate take place (group chat, YouTube, social media)? What would the specific topic be? How would the team opposing Mr. Shreck be chosen and prepare itself? And most importantly, how would the winner be decided?
Mr. Shreck is a fascinating person, and I enjoyed his book for what I thought it was. He’s a wonderfully skilled and engaging speaker as well. But things like these aren’t terribly useful when first planning a debate. The fundamentals described above are, so perhaps we should start with them. Thank you for considering them.
Right. Had family on that plane, lower middle class weekenders out having a nice time. Sad. Nobody is picking the site now or them. A mountain goat couldn’t reach it
33 comments:
Curious: What house is that? Who is the interviewer?
No comment on the TJ Video...
But....... WISH YOU ALL A HAPPY&HEALTHY 2020 !!!
Good New Year from Netherlandz
Hanz HellzBellz
When i was a kid, the year 2000 was "the future" Now, it's already 20 years in the rearciew mirror. Hard to believe. You blink and its over.
"Peter said...
You blink and its over."
And it becomes more and more real each and every day. Live well, my friends.
On an unrelated note, December was MansonBlog's best month ever statistically. We eclipsed November of 2017 (Manson's death) by about 6700 page views. That's pretty astounding. Thank you everyone for making this blog a success. We appreciate every one of you.
Off Topic:
I'm compiling info on a research project and need help with this question:
What was the name of the Sheriff of Inyo County at the time of the Barker Raids? For some odd reason I just can't locate it....
Wikipedia has a list, although it cites no sources and is incorrect about the current sheriff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inyo_County,_California#County_Sheriffs
Thank you Carlos for that prompt answer to my question!!
"Merrill L. Curtis (7 Nov 1962- 7 Nov 1970)"
You would think we would have heard that name before!
It looks like, between 1954 and 1970, that having the first name Merrill was a job requirement for Inyo County Sheriff.
About the only thing I could find on Sheriff Curtis was this:
https://mcindependentnews.com/2019/02/hawthorne-airlines-flight-crashed-50-years-ago-this-week/
"The “Gambler’s Flight” would roll rescuer’s snake-eyes when an Air Force helicopter crashed at the wreck scene. Three Army officials as well as two members of Inyo County escaped injury. Inyo County Sheriff Merrill Curtis, cracked a rib and irritated an old back injury and had to be hospitalized."
*Refers to crash of Hawthorne Nevada Airlines Douglas DC-3 N15570 Flight 708 en route from Hawthorne, Nevada to Burbank, California. With thirty-five passengers and crew, the plane went down on 2/18/69 near Mt. Whitney in the Sierra Nevadas west of Lone Pine, Inyo County.
It took six months for the wreck to be found--on Aug 8, 1969:
https://www.ocregister.com/2011/09/28/facebook-revives-plane-crash-mystery/
The next day, on what would have been Patty’s 22nd birthday, Nick heard on the news that The Gambler’s Special had been found. It was all over TV, along with news that pregnant actress Sharon Tate and her house guests had been found stabbed to death in Los Angeles, the first of the Charles Manson “family” murders.
OO-ee-OO!
I seem to remember someone saying Charlie and Company reached a crashed plane before the authorities and looted the wreckage. Does anyone know if that's the alleged plane.
Yes, this is the one.
From Ed Sanders in his book on Charles Manson
titled 'The Family' ( pg142):
"Also, on February 18, 1969, a DC-3 "Gamblers' SpeciaL" loaded up with a
drunk pilot and thirty-five gamblers crashed into the snows of Mt. Whitney
near Bishop, California in a flight from Hawthorne, Nevada to Long Beach,
California. According to the tale, the plane remained buried in deep snow
until summer when the snow melted. The plane and dead occupants were
located but supposedly all valuables and cash had been stripped from the
gamblers, booty valued at a quarter of a million dollars or so.
"The finger of blame has pointed naturally at Manson and his dune buggy
battalion. One defected family says, though it is hard to believe, that
pieces of the crashed airplane were used by the family to adorn their dune
buggies."
-------
Though of course the Mansons could not have reached the area--it was far too remote and rugged--and ice cold to boot.
Starviego,
Thank you. I always thought looting the plane would have been nearly impossible for the family and someone would have blabbed by now.
orwhut said...
"I always thought looting the plane would have been nearly impossible for the family..."
But not for the Inyo County Sheriffs' people, who were on scene by Aug 9, the day after the wreck was discovered by air.
Another Manson parrot. . .
The NTSB investigated the crash and issued a very thorough report. If there was any merit to the claim either pilot was drunk, we’d expect to see it mentioned in the report. We don’t.
This was a discount airline taking gamblers to a small Nevada town for a few hours. Nothing about it screams high rollers to me. Look at it another way: to get to the claimed figure of $250,000, the average for each person on board would have to roughly correspond to the US median annual income for the time. I just don’t buy it.
So no takers on a Schreck debate?
A debate about Schreck, or including him as a participant?
Including him.
Carlos said...
"Nothing about it screams high rollers to me. ... I just don’t buy it."
The amount of money does seem wildly exaggerated. I emailed Sanders, so let's see if he responds!
Panamint Patty said...
"Including him."
Well in that case you need to ask Schrek; I do wish he would accept!
I came across a recent interview with retired CHP officer Jim Pursell, who participated in the Barker Ranch Raids of Oct 10-12 of 1969.
http://murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/thread/1653/2018-interview-retired-officer-pursell?page=1&scrollTo=19834
He makes the surprising claim that the Inyo County Sheriffs Dept basically refused to participate in the Barker Raids, contrary to everything written about that event.
IF he is right, I am wondering if the covert operators used any info re the alleged looting of the crash site to hold it over Sheriff Merrill Curtis to compel his cooperation in making sure Charlie wasn't bothered.
Certainly it is true that it was the National Park Service, and not the LAPD, LASO, the FBI, or the Inyo County Sheriffs Dept, that lowered the boom on Charlie and Family.
Panamint Patty asked...
So no takers on a Schreck debate?
What would be the purpose of such a debate? What rules would debaters be expected to follow? In what sort of forum would such a debate take place (group chat, YouTube, social media)? What would the specific topic be? How would the team opposing Mr. Shreck be chosen and prepare itself? And most importantly, how would the winner be decided?
Mr. Shreck is a fascinating person, and I enjoyed his book for what I thought it was. He’s a wonderfully skilled and engaging speaker as well. But things like these aren’t terribly useful when first planning a debate. The fundamentals described above are, so perhaps we should start with them. Thank you for considering them.
Not thinking of a formal debate as much as a dialogue. Not even sure he would accept but maybe...
Lots of love and thoughts for TJ then ! ?
TJ: Charlie is everywhere
Wotta loon
Of course not. The Gamblers Special wreckage is in a place so forbidden and inaccessible that it’s all still there
Right. Had family on that plane, lower middle class weekenders out having a nice time. Sad. Nobody is picking the site now or them. A mountain goat couldn’t reach it
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