Not much smiling there from Pat. It is too bad that no one appeared to notice her unhappiness and tried to reach her back when it could have made a difference. She might have had some sort of decent life instead of inflicting horrible pain those two nights and living with the reputation of being a sadistic killer.
Not much smiling there from Pat. It is too bad that no one appeared to notice her unhappiness and tried to reach her back when it could have made a difference
Thing is, it's not always easy to detect a child's unhappiness. Nowadays, we tend to look for things of that ilk so we are a lot more pro~active about things like this and a lot more aware of things that could be gleaned from certain behaviour in children. But being non smiling doesn't necessarily indicate something negative, neither is being a great smiler and joker a sign of well being. Two of the three funniest {this story is about one of them}, most creatively comical kids I ever worked with ended up committing murder. They were so funny, I still laugh at some of the stuff they used to come out with back in the mid to late 80s and early 90s. I would never have pegged them as future murderers. Another kid I worked with who committed murder, I wouldn't have predicted that but I wasn't surprised when he did. I recently heard about another kid I worked with and knew pretty well that killed. Hers is a tragic story and there are mental health issues involved. I remember her well, she was one of the two most gifted girl footballers I ever saw, she used to glide all over the pitch in two footed splendour, back in '90~92. She was 11 when I first met her and in the years I knew her there was no evidence that I could see of what was to follow. She seemed happy, funny and loved fun. She was part of a new crowd that appeared seemingly out of nowhere on our playground during easter '90 that I dubbed "the new thing players" {I was in my jazz phase !} and they used to play like you wouldn't believe. If anything, it was her cousin whom I met the same year and was a year older that I worried about, especially when a colleague and I had to drag her to hospital when, in her unhappiness, she swallowed a bottle of pills. At 12. Pat has always said that in her young days, families just didn't discuss personal problems. Whatever one wants to say about Charles Manson, one thing that stands tall in the overall story is that he did listen. I can attest by personal experience just how far people will go for someone who will do that and pay them attention.
Of course THEY know HOW to identify "natural born killers" - that's how THEY select police officers. That's also why God created traceable "back-grounds".
Maybe the photographer just told her you're not supposed to smile for the school portrait (in picture 1) - but still, it sure is easy to superimpose all of our 46 years of "postjudice" upon the face of a little girl getting a school portrait.
I think Pat gets a bumb wrap on her looks because she wasn't one of the prettiest of Charlies girls. In the general population, I'd say she's around average. As for body hair, they've got depilatory creams and razors for that.
There is an observation to make that out of the girls she was the best at having a go at killing, but because women tend to be judged on their appearance she loses out for not being the prettiest.
The hairy thing, I feel for her because it was something she had not control over; a bit like having a go at Manson for being short or Fromme for being ginger and sunburnt, or TJ and Dean Moorehouse for being bald.
Mind you, an honourable exception could go to Tex for his trial haircut, had I been on the jury I may have given him the benefit of the doubt on the insanity defence based on that alone.
I think Christoher has put me onto the REAL motive. Maybe the gang went to Cielo to get Jay to style Tex's hair. When Jay refused, they went bat poop crazy and killed everybody.
I think all of Charlie's girls had the potential to be attractive, including Pat and Mary. The most beautiful, at least in my opinion was Sandra Good. Nobody could beat her, including Ruth Moorehouse in the face department.
Yesterday after I commented that cops are "natural born killers" I found out that MY young grandson (working at a gas station in an upscale neighborhood) was robbed at gunpoint by a young black boy and HIS girlfriend. Then today Obama announced that WE must do something about all the " mass killings " by crazy, evil WHITE folks. NOW - I get it. WE white folks KILL with our guns and the poor Black Folks only use guns to scare rich White folks into handing over THEIR money.
So why don't WE just pay an EXTRA $$ tax to the government for the government to PAY the poor Black folks. Kind'a a reverse Helter Skelter. Hey, why don't WE just do the same to ISIS -pay THEM to NOT fuck with US. Then nobody would even NEED guns to run THEIR businesses.
We could then melt down ALL the guns to make Toyota pick-up trucks. BUT wait, that would kill the need for TOYOTAS. OH shit, maybe Hilary's got a better WAY, like KILL all the Republicans.
If Pat K had three tits, a double jointed pussy and a rep for squirting cold beer she still wouldn't have garnered the same attention as Susan Atkins, who minus upper lip hair , was a damned attractive girl on a good day. She had a great figure and an overtly sassy, sexy manner and she knew it. Pat looked like a sack of spuds next to her. It was perhaps a case of not how many Pat killed, or how violently, but how unattractive she was doing it , compared to Atkins and even Van Houten and there lesser efforts ( so to speak)
Ann i am with you. I think they all had potencial for being attractive. As for Pat put some makeup and a good haircut, earrings and all, she would look average at least.
Susan Atkins, who minus upper lip hair , was a damned attractive girl on a good day. She had a great figure and an overtly sassy, sexy manner and she knew it.
Agree. I think Susan was the prettiest of the Manson girls. Sexy sadie fit her well, and yes she knew it. Susan was a spirited fun loving tomboy type who lived for excitement of the moment, which doomed her.
For a long time I doubted that Susan had the arm strength to stab and kill Sharon given the deep wounds Sharon had in her chest. Yet I reconsidered because Susan's photos show she had long muscular arms,strong hands, well developed shoulders,and an overall athletic build. Take a look at her in the photo over on Cielo.com where she's standing out on the porch with the young fellow smoking the cigarette.
Still, Susan didn't have the chops to kill, the evidence indicates. Nevertheless I believe the old hair head was intimidated by Susan.
Susan kept her looks all her life. One of her best photos was taken a few years before her death around 2005 or something. She had grey hair but really showed a classy appearance.
I don't know why everyone is talking about Pat's body hair. If I'd have been at the ranch or where ever I would have had no problem jumping into bed or probably on a mattress because I think armpit, pubic and leg hair on a female make a female look more natural, mature and damned sexy. Also, apparently none of the female members shaved anywhere ever. That would have been all I needed to keep me there.
Tragically Pats half sister Charlene who was a druggie, was found dead in a river on 1970. The autopsy showed a very deadly substance in her body that the coroner refused to name. It was suspected that Manson was involved in her death.
Almost every comment on this post about her looks. Must do better, class
Yet, fundamental to Pat Krenwinkel's involvement in both the Family, and the case in general, are her looks. You can't discuss how Pat came into Charlie's orbit without discussing her looks. How she felt about the way she looked was critical to why she responded to Charlie in the way she did back in '67 and of course, that was the beginning of a road that led to murder. I agree that making fun of her in regards to her looks is a poor, poor show. But to not discuss it is naive. It displays a deficient understanding of human beings and some of the things that make us tick.
40 comments:
Not much smiling there from Pat. It is too bad that no one appeared to notice her unhappiness and tried to reach her back when it could have made a difference. She might have had some sort of decent life instead of inflicting horrible pain those two nights and living with the reputation of being a sadistic killer.
Her mom was a looker.
sasha11papers said...
Not much smiling there from Pat. It is too bad that no one appeared to notice her unhappiness and tried to reach her back when it could have made a difference
Thing is, it's not always easy to detect a child's unhappiness. Nowadays, we tend to look for things of that ilk so we are a lot more pro~active about things like this and a lot more aware of things that could be gleaned from certain behaviour in children.
But being non smiling doesn't necessarily indicate something negative, neither is being a great smiler and joker a sign of well being. Two of the three funniest {this story is about one of them}, most creatively comical kids I ever worked with ended up committing murder. They were so funny, I still laugh at some of the stuff they used to come out with back in the mid to late 80s and early 90s. I would never have pegged them as future murderers. Another kid I worked with who committed murder, I wouldn't have predicted that but I wasn't surprised when he did.
I recently heard about another kid I worked with and knew pretty well that killed. Hers is a tragic story and there are mental health issues involved. I remember her well, she was one of the two most gifted girl footballers I ever saw, she used to glide all over the pitch in two footed splendour, back in '90~92. She was 11 when I first met her and in the years I knew her there was no evidence that I could see of what was to follow. She seemed happy, funny and loved fun. She was part of a new crowd that appeared seemingly out of nowhere on our playground during easter '90 that I dubbed "the new thing players" {I was in my jazz phase !} and they used to play like you wouldn't believe. If anything, it was her cousin whom I met the same year and was a year older that I worried about, especially when a colleague and I had to drag her to hospital when, in her unhappiness, she swallowed a bottle of pills. At 12.
Pat has always said that in her young days, families just didn't discuss personal problems. Whatever one wants to say about Charles Manson, one thing that stands tall in the overall story is that he did listen. I can attest by personal experience just how far people will go for someone who will do that and pay them attention.
Matt said... Her mom was a looker.
When I see a photo of Kitty and her mom I think the same thing.
Unfortunately whut, she looks like her dad.
Genetics can be a &$tch.
Of course THEY know HOW to identify "natural born killers" - that's how THEY select police officers. That's also why God created traceable "back-grounds".
Maybe the photographer just told her you're not supposed to smile for the school portrait (in picture 1) - but still, it sure is easy to superimpose all of our 46 years of "postjudice" upon the face of a little girl getting a school portrait.
PS. Yes, I know that's a made up word.
After Little Paul's book I just wonder about all the body hair!
Patty once had a girl scout camp counselor with a hairy chest it was really weird
Hello everyone! I am a new blogger. In my opinion, Pat didn't look too bad in these pictures.
Hello pickle
I think Pat gets a bumb wrap on her looks because she wasn't one of the prettiest of Charlies girls. In the general population, I'd say she's around average. As for body hair, they've got depilatory creams and razors for that.
There is an observation to make that out of the girls she was the best at having a go at killing, but because women tend to be judged on their appearance she loses out for not being the prettiest.
The hairy thing, I feel for her because it was something she had not control over; a bit like having a go at Manson for being short or Fromme for being ginger and sunburnt, or TJ and Dean Moorehouse for being bald.
Mind you, an honourable exception could go to Tex for his trial haircut, had I been on the jury I may have given him the benefit of the doubt on the insanity defence based on that alone.
I think Christoher has put me onto the REAL motive. Maybe the gang went to Cielo to get Jay to style Tex's hair. When Jay refused, they went bat poop crazy and killed everybody.
I think you two are on to something!
Matt, surely you meant;
"I think you two are on something!"
Good one, MHN!
Those are killer.
Har har xreles...
Charlie; Hey where you guys going?
TEX: I'm going over to KILL Jay for a bad haircut.
Charlie: Wow, if you see Melcher, could you kill him for screwing me out of a record deal ?
TEX: Yeah, but he doesn't live at the Cielo house anymore.
Charlie: OH, then how about killing anyone for me and make it look like Helter Skelter?
Susan: Hey TEX, can I come along and kill that Folger girl, cause I got a bad cup of coffee.
Linda: I guess I better go, and do the UBER thing - cause I got the only driver's license.
TEX: Alright, who else wants to go?
Pat: ME, ME, ME, I want to go, cause it's WAR baby, WAR.
Susan: OK Pat, which WAR is it this tine ?
Cappy: WAR, WAR, now I want to go.
TEX: Well you can't - there isn't enough roon in the CAR !!!!
Looking at Pat's doo in a couple of those pictures makes me think she might have been taking out hair revenge herself.
I think all of Charlie's girls had the potential to be attractive, including Pat and Mary. The most beautiful, at least in my opinion was Sandra Good. Nobody could beat her, including Ruth Moorehouse in the face department.
Sorry Suze, I couldn't resist, I tried not to but I did it anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And I'm a million different people from one day to the next
I can't change my mould, no, no, no, no, no
OK I've got a few questions about the bike pic.
Does anybody else see her pubs?
Is she standing or sitting on the fender?
Where is the seat?
Or do I need my head checked out?
Yesterday after I commented that cops are "natural born killers" I found out that MY young grandson (working at a gas station in an upscale neighborhood) was robbed at gunpoint by a young black boy and HIS girlfriend.
Then today Obama announced that WE must do something about all the " mass killings " by crazy, evil WHITE folks.
NOW - I get it. WE white folks KILL with our guns and the poor Black Folks only use guns to scare rich White folks into handing over THEIR money.
So why don't WE just pay an EXTRA $$ tax to the government for the government to PAY the poor Black folks. Kind'a a reverse Helter Skelter. Hey, why don't WE just do the same to ISIS -pay THEM to NOT fuck with US. Then nobody would even NEED guns to run THEIR businesses.
We could then melt down ALL the guns to make Toyota pick-up trucks. BUT wait, that would kill the need for TOYOTAS. OH shit, maybe Hilary's got a better WAY, like KILL all the Republicans.
Does anyone have a photo of her half sister?
Fugly her whole life.
If Pat K had three tits, a double jointed pussy and a rep for squirting cold beer she still wouldn't have garnered the same attention as Susan Atkins, who minus upper lip hair , was a damned attractive girl on a good day. She had a great figure and an overtly sassy, sexy manner and she knew it. Pat looked like a sack of spuds next to her. It was perhaps a case of not how many Pat killed, or how violently, but how unattractive she was doing it , compared to Atkins and even Van Houten and there lesser efforts ( so to speak)
Ann i am with you. I think they all had potencial for being attractive. As for Pat put some makeup and a good haircut, earrings and all, she would look average at least.
For God's sake Xerles there are no pubes showing in the bike pic!
CrisPOA said...
I think they all had potencial for being attractive. As for Pat put some makeup and a good haircut, earrings and all, she would look average at least
I think by the late 80s and into the 90s, Pat was attractively seasoned and positively hot.
Susan Atkins, who minus upper lip hair , was a damned attractive girl on a good day. She had a great figure and an overtly sassy, sexy manner and she knew it.
Agree. I think Susan was the prettiest of the Manson girls. Sexy sadie fit her well, and yes she knew it. Susan was a spirited fun loving tomboy type who lived for excitement of the moment, which doomed her.
For a long time I doubted that Susan had the arm strength to stab and kill Sharon given the deep wounds Sharon had in her chest. Yet I reconsidered because Susan's photos show she had long muscular arms,strong hands, well developed shoulders,and an overall athletic build. Take a look at her in the photo over on Cielo.com where she's standing out on the porch with the young fellow smoking the cigarette.
Still, Susan didn't have the chops to kill, the evidence indicates. Nevertheless I believe the old hair head was intimidated by Susan.
Susan kept her looks all her life. One of her best photos was taken a few years before her death around 2005 or something. She had grey hair but really showed a classy appearance.
I don't know why everyone is talking about Pat's body hair. If I'd have been at the ranch or where ever I would have had no problem jumping into bed or probably on a mattress because I think armpit, pubic and leg hair on a female make a female look more natural, mature and damned sexy. Also, apparently none of the female members shaved anywhere ever. That would have been all I needed to keep me there.
Tragically Pats half sister Charlene who was a druggie, was found dead in a river on 1970. The autopsy showed a very deadly substance in her body that the coroner refused to name. It was suspected that Manson was involved in her death.
Almost every comment on this post about her looks.
Must do better, class.
Actually, 22 out of 38 aren't.
Tragical History Tour said...
Almost every comment on this post about her looks.
Must do better, class
Yet, fundamental to Pat Krenwinkel's involvement in both the Family, and the case in general, are her looks. You can't discuss how Pat came into Charlie's orbit without discussing her looks. How she felt about the way she looked was critical to why she responded to Charlie in the way she did back in '67 and of course, that was the beginning of a road that led to murder.
I agree that making fun of her in regards to her looks is a poor, poor show. But to not discuss it is naive. It displays a deficient understanding of human beings and some of the things that make us tick.
Excellent point, grim, also interesting is the fact that MANY of Charlies girls were GERMAN. Ever hear about Munchausen syndrome?
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