Lt. Deemer's list of Family members and associates describes Haught as being 5'8" tall, weighing 130 pounds with brown hair and hazel eyes and a birth date of April 20, 1949. The California Death Index has his birth year as 1947 which is probably correct as the info for the death certificate was supplied by his family. Haught was born in Missouri and raised in Ohio, where he is buried.
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The other picture thought to be him is this one which is the header for John Philip Haught's webpage at cielodrive.com .
I found a mug shot of the same picture and it is identified as being Robert Earl Murray.
I know the mug shot with the Robert Earl Murray identifier has been around for quite some time. I think what people might believe is that John Philip Haught was arrested with the Family at some point and used the name Robert Earl Murray as an alias. The fact is Robert Earl Murray was arrested with other Family members May 2, 1968 in Malibu, months before John Philip Haught was known to associate with the Family.
The arrest report is available for reading at mansonsbackporch.com It's about 3/4 of the way down the page titled LASD Arrest Report May 2, 1968.
The info that accompanies the arrest report says that Robert Earl Murray was 6'6" in height, weighed 205 pounds. He had brown hair and blue eyes. His date of birth was Aug. 8, 1945. His address was 8 Woodstock Lane Pittsford, NY.
Due to recent interest in Robert Earl Murray I was moved to hunt down his high school senior picture and it pretty well confirms that he is an actual person, in fact the one who was arrested in the 1968 Malibu drug bust. He is not John Philip Haught.
This photo is Robert Earl Murray's senior picture from Pittsford Central High School, class of 1965, in Pittsford NY. Most high school seniors are 17 or 18 years old when they graduate. Unless Murray was held back a couple of grades it appears that he lied about his birth year when he was arrested because he would have been 19 or 20 years old when he graduated. I have no idea whether or not the month and year of the birthdate he gave to the sheriff's department is correct. It is a little spooky that the date he gave was August 8th, if it's not his true birthdate, because it was on the same date in 1969 that Family members left Spahn Ranch to commit the Cielo Drive murders.
I have tried to locate Robert Earl Murray but have had no luck to date. We, here at the blog, did contact Cielodrive and send him Murray's high school picture prior to this post. He was aware that the picture in his header for John Philip Haught was Murray and has been meaning to fix that but hadn't gotten around to it yet. He said he will soon though!
Great work Deb S - as usual. Even though it's not Haught it's fascinating; what happens to someone to change them from a neat, grinning high-school nerd with a future in real estate into a dishevelled cowboy outlaw with sex-fiend eyes?
ReplyDeleteDeb,
ReplyDeleteYou are a researcher par excellence! Great that you cleared that point up, but also interesting that this guy was in the Malibu arrest. Suppose the wealthy citizens of Malibu would be freaking out at The Family being near their luxury homes - wonder if there were any 'creeepy crawls' in the area at that time.
Any hud around that area for you rich poor trash that dont kill
DeleteI've often wondered the same thing MHN, looking at these high-school photos of respectable establishment winners with neat hair and a nice tie or dress... Always reminded me very very much of this poster:
ReplyDeletehttp://i.imgur.com/kWjeS5J.jpg
And while I've diverged the topic onto cartoons (aren't I clever?), anyone who remembers the name 'Nick Bougas' might find this interesting (although NOTE that this article really shouldn't be read if you're at work, bit risque):
ReplyDeletehttp://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-surprisingly-mainstream-history-of-the-internets-favorit#.cqKggGqwwy
Vermouth of course - it's dope! Hehe. I was about to say maybe some people are not yet ready for the freedom that suddenly rushes into their lives when they leave school. But of course, they are. It's only an unfortunate coincidence that society often isn't.
ReplyDeleteInteresting article VB. Wyatt Mann? Seriously? That was the best supremacist nom-de-guerre he could come up with?
I'll bet Murray could tell an interesting story!
ReplyDeleteI'm a murray and I cant read let me proof read this its ok
DeleteI've been aware of Wyatt Mann's cartoons for a long time, as well as that Jew-bwa-ha-ha.gif pic (although I always knew it as 'le happy merchant'). Hard not to be when you're on certain sections of the internet, they're infamous. The revelation that he was who he was - part of Schreck's retinue and with vague connections to this case (made documentaries on Manson, met Brooks Poston, appears to have maybe met a few people who read this blog) - probably won't have the impact on other people here that it had on me, but MAN it is so weird how often you'll be reading about something unrelated and Charlie Manson comes into it somehow. Manson really does bring out the subversives & the crazies (which doesn't include us here in Blogland, of course, we're all very normal, grounded people with no issues whatsoever).
ReplyDeleteI used to really like that Freak Brothers Dope picture. I think you should reach a point in your life though where the 'Before' is actually seen as more positive than the 'After', to some degree anyway. But that goofy image is pretty evocative to me. It kind of sums up what happened to a whole subsection of a generation, just a complete rejection of mainstream values & culture in favour of an alternative that was actually not much better (even though it appeared to be at the time- the Freak Bros. was definitely pro-hippy/dope).
The Family kind of provide another example of what that rejection could bring, especially comparing THEIR before and after pics. It's hard to feel that a creepy mugshot reflects a better lifestyle than that of a wide-smiling young man in a tight necktie & suit with his whole life in front of him, although a lot of people might disagree then & a few still would now. But, as Mr. S. just mentioned, I'm sure the path he chose was at least lively (I hope he's still living it). Kudos to Deb on allowing this comparison through her detective work here, this place never ceases to amaze me.
Maybe some of you will understand - it was the Vietnam WAR that changed EVERTHING in America and about America. YES, we all got dressed up in our Sunday go to church suits and dresses to take our "class" pictures, BUT Vietnam changed even that.
ReplyDeleteI thought maybe after all these years I'd mellowed out a bit, BUT when I SEE "zero" was a "Vietnam Vetran" AND the Pigs would'nt even give HIM the time of day for, a least, a half-assed murder investigation - well, maybe I better shut-the-fuck-up - before THEY come and arrest ME for dragging THEM out of the closet.
Reminds me of the time Gypsy told me about the Sherriff's deputy who used to hide behind a tree and beat-off while he watched THEM frolic in the nude.
Heck Robert, given the state of policing in the US, beating-off is preferable to beating-up.
ReplyDeleteA new meaning to officer on the beat.
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ReplyDeleteI was meaning to get a better avatar, that Bobby kitten bugs me. But, as it turns out, I look just like Tom Brady!
ReplyDeleteAnd now I unserstand why there are so many "comments deleted by author"! I had thought it was admin doing all the deleting.
Fiddy 8, when we delete a post we obliterate all traces of it, like it was never there!
ReplyDeleteI think I've only been obliertaed one time. I got a little snarky with Dr Dave about historical content. I thought Dr Dave was great and am glad it got deleted. I would have myself, but with a non-google ID I was working without a net.
ReplyDeleteA. Wyatt Mann = A White Man
ReplyDeleteDuh, Chats! Lol
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteMatt, I'd like your expert opinion on this.
Would you say that the guy that isn't Haught is hotter than Haught?
Or is Haught hotter?
You'd have to ask Col.
ReplyDeleteMan oh man. He was easy on the eye!
ReplyDeleteHaught's gravestone says born Apr. 20, 1947
ReplyDeleteAnd his California death index record says his residence was El Cerrito, which is up here in the Bay Area, right next to Richmond. I notice the obit. says his Grandparents lived in Richmond (don't know if that's Calif.) His mom's maiden name was Boyle. In the obit. his parents have a different last name but sisters the same last name as him. Were they all adopted? Or their mom remarried and they were adopted by the stepfather?
ReplyDeleteHumph. I'm not seeing El Cerrito on John Haught's CA death record. He was born 4-20-47 and died 11-5-69. Mom was remarried and all the relatives lived in Ohio or Indiana, not CA.
ReplyDeleteDeb, for some reason on Ancestry.com it says residence El Cerrito. It's the same guy. Right dates, died in Los Angeles.
ReplyDeleteWhich record are you looking at? I'm looking at the CA Death Index record at Ancestry and there is no residence stated. This is what I'm seeing.
ReplyDeleteName:
John P Haught
Social Security #:
275448726
Gender:
Male
Birth Date:
20 Apr 1947
Death Date:
5 Nov 1969
Death Place:
Los Angeles
Mother's Maiden Name:
Boyles
Yes I see that record too. Where I see El Cerrito is not on that page but on the one you click on to see that record. In other words I did a search for him and it gave several matches and on that page where you see the different choices the death index record shows residence El Cerrito for that same record. Don't know why it doesn't show it when you click on it.
ReplyDeleteOh, you mean in the Suggested Records, on the right? The only suggested record that shows up for me is the Find a Grave one. How weird!
ReplyDeleteHmmm. And mine says Matching records. If you only got the find a grave maybe you had too many search criteria. I don't know.
ReplyDeleteYes, I tried unchecking the Exact boxes but still got the same results when looking at the CA Death Record. The mysteries of Ancestry......
ReplyDeleteI sometimes forget about the Vietnam War... and Nixon. That would probably have made me want to grow my hair long, take dope, and paint 'Kill the Pig' on walls. Though I doubt I'd have painted it with someone else's blood - not unless I had someone else to absolve me of my sins, i.e. Charlie and those post-arrest cries of "The devil made me do it!"
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the people who lived through Vietnam wouldn't forget it, though.
Murray is a nice lookin' dude even with the beard, tbh. I bet when he'd trimmed it down a notch and maybe cut back on the sherm a bit he'd've made a pretty sharp character. And who looks good in a mugshot anyway?
Just saying.......I question the source of mansonsbackporch as far as that police report goes. Also, that report mentions Hinman as far as dealing drugs, in 1968.
ReplyDeleteChannels didn't get that report from the police.....guaranteed.
On the previous POST Starship mentions the "hippie undercover cop character in Aquarius TV show"
ReplyDeleteLook carefully at Murray photo and then go watch the "hippie" in Aquarius - similarity - coincidence OR by design ?
BTW - for those of you who find the Acquarius TV show way OFF base, they have purposely mixed-up the proper sequence of events so as to avoid copyright infringement liability. INGENIOUS !
BUT they also emphasize the "undercover" infiltration of the Family, which would make perfect sense.
This might explain why the "zero" death was NOT investgated further.
Deb: is there even a police record of ALL who were there in the house when "zero" supposedly blew HIS brains out. I can still SEE the blood on the bed. Did the cops even take photos ?
The FACT that NO further investigation was EVER done on the ZERO, Merrick OR Ronnie Howard killings, leads ME to understand that something suspicius is being kept from the public and Mr. Policeman(s) are surely involved. 3 out of 3 ?
BTW - I just realized that the REAL reason certain movie people put up the $25,000 reward in the TATE case so early, was THEY knew the cops would NEVER solve the case. AND they were obviously RIGHT - a "hooker" who was "associated" with the "mob" did the job for them. AND then Ronnie was murdered and absolutely NO investigation was conducted.
I'm sorry folks, they don't ring bells anymore !
Pittsford, NY has more in common with Malibu than the Spahn Ranch. Pittsford is a very exclusive area. I get to spend the next few days there. Sounds great, but I'll be working.
ReplyDeleteJosh Bratt said...
ReplyDeleteJust saying.......I question the source of mansonsbackporch as far as that police report goes. Also, that report mentions Hinman as far as dealing drugs, in 1968.
Channels didn't get that report from the police.....guaranteed.
Josh, what exactly are you trying to imply? Are you saying the report is false, manufactured by Channels perhaps? The arrest does appear on Manson's rap sheet saying he was released for insufficient evidence on 5-4-68.
What difference does it make as to where the report was obtained if it is a legitimate report? Do you think that any of the Family was above throwing someone under the bus, such as Hinman, to save their own skin?
Robert Earl Murray was included in Lt. Deemer's list of Family members and associates, that list was compiled by Deemer in late November to early December 1969 more than a year after the 5-2-68 arrests. Did Deemer make that up?
That is so true about the Family throwing people under the bus to save their own skin. So true!
DeleteI see where Zero got his name.
ReplyDeleteWhat a loser.
Boots, Zero got his name from the amount of serious police work that would be devoted to investigating his death.
ReplyDeleteRobert
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as copyright infringement for this story. What would they be copyrighting? Please only speak of things you know.
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ReplyDeleteDawes, thanks for your comment. I'm not sure where all of the mug shots come from but many are from the Spahn Ranch raids. I'm not so sure, though, if any are from the Inyo County arrests and that could be why there are no mug shots of Haught. Inyo County seemed very focused on keeping Manson in their jail, he was there from the October arrest until he was charged with the Tate/LaBianca murders in December. This was unlike his many arrests in the Los Angeles area where he was released without being charged in many cases, to being slapped on the hand for his offenses in other cases. It is quite surprising to me that a dinky little county court system like Inyo was the jurisdiction that ultimately led to Manson's downfall.
ReplyDeleteHi Deb. Regarding your comment about Inyo keeping Manson in custody. The U.S. Department of Justice issued a violators warrant on Charlie on 10/9 and requested Inyo to hold him. This all stemmed from a firearms transaction in July and his associations with other parolees such as Bill Vance. So in the end of September of 1969, probation officers requested the warrant be issued and they were in the process of sending Charlie back to Federal prison.
ReplyDeleteCielo, I have often wondered why Charlie was never sent back to prison for parole violations. He had been arrested so many times between 1967 and his last arrest in Inyo County that it was inconceivable to me why this was not done. While most of the charges were dropped for lack of evidence or some other technicality, the burden of proof for a parole violation is not that of criminal charges with pleas or trials.
ReplyDeleteIt's good to know that LE finally got around to it but unfortunately it was too late for nine people. Thanks for that information.
Bougas was a huge name in Mansonland when I became interested in the case. I have a picture of him draping himself over Sandra Good. He also was an early penpal of Manson's. Bougas is also the owner of the cassette put together by Paul Watkins who claims he lied on the stand because Bugliosi forced him to.
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ReplyDeleteDeb, I'm implying the explanation for where the report came from is false. I know it's legit and I'm not disagreeing with what you say......chill out. :)
ReplyDeleteI've read the original. The best part being the '68 reference to Hinman dealing drugs.
No offense meant.
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ReplyDeleteCielodrive.com said...
ReplyDeleteThe U.S. Department of Justice issued a violators warrant on Charlie on 10/9 and requested Inyo to hold him. This all stemmed from a firearms transaction in July and his associations with other parolees such as Bill Vance. So in the end of September of 1969, probation officers requested the warrant be issued and they were in the process of sending Charlie back to Federal prison
When Samuel Barrett, Charlie's parole officer, testified during the penalty phase of the trial in Feb '71, he gives some detail as to this and how he was recommending that Charlie's parole be rescinded. So although Charlie had been arrested more than 4 times during '69 and possibly may have felt that he was going to keep on getting away with stuff, fact is, the sands of time were running out for young Charles.
https://johnphilliphaught19471969.blogspot.com/
ReplyDelete