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Tuesday, July 7, 2015
In Memory of Dennis Rice
A big thank you to Chatsworth Charlie for sending this YouTube that is a remembrance of Dennis, showing him give a talk at one of the prisons. He talks about the Hawthorn Shootout and is quite animated discussing it!
One a con, always a con. This guy used the Manson name to push his agenda and was involved with the other con, Catherine Share. I heard recently one of the guys involved said the Hawthorne shoot out had absolutely nothing to do with Manson or any plot to free him.
Everytime Dennis Rice's name comes up, I am forced to look in the mirror, simply because HE was just like YOU and ME - EXCEPT he crossed that line in the sand.
Actually, ALL except Charlie and possibly "TEX" were just like YOU and ME. Even the regular guys who participated in the Mi Lai Massacre were just like YOU and ME, EXCEPT they also crossed that magic line - drawn in the sand by a society.
There are over 50,000 names on the Vietnam Wall, BUT the two most relevant names are missing - John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. Figure that one out and YOU will be a on a mental par with GOD.
This YouTube was obviously made by someone close to Dennis who believed in his brand of religion, hence the In Memory title. I had never seen Dennis in "action" and had no idea that he hawked religion like he was selling snake oil out of the back of a covered wagon.
It's difficult to understand how it can be said that Dennis found God and that God turned his life around. It seems to me that Dennis simply exchanged one con for another, a more lucrative and socially acceptable con.
"It seems to me that Dennis simply exchanged one con for another, a more lucrative and socially acceptable con"
Boots said...
"Dennis believed in sky fairies. What a loser"
Ouch !
DebS said...
"It's difficult to understand how it can be said that Dennis found God and that God turned his life around"
It's difficult to understand a whole range of things that other people nonetheless are able to understand. I have a mate who got a first class degree at Oxford and his Phd at Cambridge and he finds it impossible, not just difficult, to understand paradoxes. Whereas thick ol' me finds it simple. I, on the other hand find it difficult to understand algebra or Pythagoras.
Yes, thanks Chats. That was an enjoyable 6 minutes. He did some horrible things as a young man but he dedicated the rest of his life to helping people, sky fairies notwithstanding.
Whether or not Jesus is the Son of God, and whether or not there is a God, if it's real for these people and makes it so they can have a good attitude and stay out of prison I'm all for it. Hallelujah! If someone can get a good attitude in prison without seeking God, that's great too. Now I'm off to prove I'm not a robot.
Well, he hooked up with Catherine Share. Share never went "straight", despite her phoney born again BS. Even as far back as 1970, it seems she was a wheeler and dealer interested in cashing in on what was happening. Now she'll do any interview, but for a price (so as long as you don't bring up her role in the murder of Shorty Shea, I imagine). Bill Nelson was an idiot, but his chapter on her is one of the better in Manson Behind the Scenes.
Not sure if this is legit and if Dennis had anything to do with the way the flyers were written up but I found this DEPLORABLE! (Sharon Tate's baby will save the world)
Hey Grimm Traveler: I love YOUR "paradoxes" comment.
Can you give me your take on Manson's comment at the end of MANSON 1973 movie: "I've been pay'in for YOUR sins for two thousand years - I'm getting tired of paying for your sins." ?
In My humble opinion good riddance I think about those beautiful little blonde hair blue eye kids living in the squalor of Spahn ranch after he the horrible crimes it's no loss
I honestly can't see why a father would leave his kids with a bunch of strangers. Didn't he leave them with them like the first day they met? The Chicken Coop incident was just horrible.
I never really understood why Manson wanted the children separated from their parent. I know that he did it because he believed that parents filled their child's head with shit, but I feel like it goes much deeper than that. His childhood, as been told millions of times, has been quite harsh for him but then again, he's the one that messed that up completely. His mother probably was the huge figure behind the whole 'separation of child and parent.' I feel like I just rambled on, sorry.
Robert, I don't know anything about the 'Gang Initiation Motive,' but I do know what Gang Initiation means.
I think a person can do horrible things and then turn their life around. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Most of the people in the Manson group were very young and have had decades to grow up. I don't know why Dennis Rice would go preach in prisons if he didn't believe his own message. He could have stayed away from prisons and not be reminded of his time there. Yes Col., I know I'm stupid-thank you in advance.
I'd like to her about the gang initiation motive. Manson shooting Crowe, Bobby offing Hinman...was it Tex's turn to step up to the plate? Davis and Clem did theirs with Shorty. But then again, this seemed like a fairly tight knit bunch. I'm not sure killing would have been needed to reach ONE. Unless it was Manson's way to make sure all got their hands dirty to have something on them unless they opened their holes about Crowe and Hinman....BUT the fact nearly everyone and their brother, including Brooks knowing about Crowe and Shea kinda files that in the "nope" folder.
But then again, Charlie is a product of the prison system. Where I am pretty sure sticking a knife in somebody can earn you quite a bit.
D. LaCalandra: "I'm not sure killing would have been needed to reach ONE. Unless it was Manson's way to make sure all got their hands dirty to have something on them unless they opened their holes about Crowe and Hinman...." I'm starting to think that factored into it to some degree. Everyone getting their hands dirty would have just tied them even closer to Charlie, and given him more power over them. Especially because, as the only one with any criminal experience, they'd naturally turn to him for Guidance (and also to help clean up their messes... tho cleaning up after a bunch of angry middle-class kids acting out against Daddy couldn't have been a lot of Fun).
"Dennis believed in sky fairies. What a loser." I can think of worse stars to hitch your wagon to.
I don't think there was anything random about the murders though and despite what a lot of people think and Bugliosi's notion he's a blood thristy mass murderer, I don't believe senseless violence is something Charlie is into. I actually do believe he has a moral code and can and will get his hands dirty when he feels it's necessary.
Wow, RH and LaCalandra. That motive on Charlie's part makes sense to me as one of the considerations. Everyone gets their hands dirty. No one rats on me.
Well, that's pretty much what Atkins said in her last book. That after Crowe, he was trying to get the hands dirty of everyone who knew.
Here is a general quote from online:
"Soldiers and close associates are expected to follow any orders and to eventually participate in a mafia related killing at some time, thus binding them to their officially affiliated crime family, associate faction or group and to determine their loyalty and trustworthiness"
Kinda makes you wonder about his disappearing acts on the night of LaBianca. But then again (a lot of then agains in this case), nobody ever forced Kasabian to bloody her knife.
As I said, in Atkins book, she pretty much said after Crowe, the summer of '69 was about Manson trying to bind everyone to him.
Kinda scary when you consider Poston said Manson told him if he loved him, he'd kill the Sheriff. But we don't know how much of what was said as jokes and in jist that Poston made seem like it was serious. He seemed like a kid who took everything litterarlly.
At the end of their rope, I guess people want to believe in something, and will fall back into what their folks believed in. But that isn't fact. It's human frailty. The search for truth should be ongoing. And without prejudice. There isn't a single nation, or church, or ideaology that has the world figured out.
If I'm in the wrong, show me where I'm wrong. Peace.
Blogger william marshall said... Yes Col we usually don't agree on most things but on this one absolutely & I miss your blog Hello Matt Ms Patty Mr Hendrickson & my friend Equinox
Hi William,
Hope you are keeping well at the moment and continue to go from strength to strength. God Bless You, my friend.
Robert Hendrickson said... 'Hey Grimm Traveler: I love YOUR "paradoxes" comment.
Can you give me your take on Manson's comment at the end of MANSON 1973 movie: "I've been pay'in for YOUR sins for two thousand years - I'm getting tired of paying for your sins." ?'
I think Charlie was boxing clever there. Again being paradoxical and “reflecting” his perception of the media’s perception of him as this guy that implied he was Christ, “the hippie cult leader.” But also not taking responsibility for what lay behind his conviction. Even to this day {or at least in the most recent books about him} he speaks of how the whole shebang was dumped on him........like he was/is paying for other peoples' shit.
Embrosia said... "I honestly can't see why a father would leave his kids with a bunch of strangers"
No strange thing here in England, the amount of kids in care and Dads that won’t care for them.
Embrosia said... "I never really understood why Manson wanted the children separated from their parent"
I think Charlie is a paradox ~ “out there” in some ways, just like anyone else in others. After all he’s human. He hurts. He bleeds. He gets pissed off. He laughs. He can be spiteful; “I never had my mommy. Neither will you !” Remember, for all the pain she caused him, he made it to the age of 32 without his Mum so he possibly felt that children could survive without parents.
Mr. Humphrat said... "I think a person can do horrible things and then turn their life around. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Most of the people in the Manson group were very young and have had decades to grow up"
Absolutely. People change. There are different levels of change. Some of the group seem to have changed in jail. There have been people that did outrageous things in war that are now different people. Also, part of the reason why some of the TLB killers have appeared to change their stories could be simply that they grew up. They realized the world wasn't coming to a close, they were facing life in prison and they woke up. "Cripes ! I didn't bargain for this !!"
Vermouth Brilliantine said... "Everyone getting their hands dirty would have just tied them even closer to Charlie, and given him more power over them. Especially because, as the only one with any criminal experience, they'd naturally turn to him for Guidance (and also to help clean up their messes...)"
Yeah, worked wonders for Bobby.
D. LaCalandra said... "Well, that's pretty much what Atkins said in her last book. That after Crowe, he was trying to get the hands dirty of everyone who knew"
I think there’s some truth in that. That it blew up in his face tells us what a great idea it was.
TomG said...
"The search for truth should be ongoing. And without prejudice. There isn't a single nation, or church, or ideaology that has the world figured out"
To that, all I can say as one that has for the last 30 years lived the experience that begins with being born again, the search for truth with Christ is ongoing. I know many of my number feel that life kind of stops because the major question has been answered. But it’s a journey, a street that never ends because God is not static, but dynamic. And not easy to constantly gauge. The error, for me at least, is in referring to oneself as ‘born again’ in an ongoing sense. I know why we do it, it’s making a statement of sorts, that life has begun again. But for me, it’s a daft term. When I was an atheist, I didn’t walk around referring to myself as ‘born’. I’ve long told people, I only ever had one birthday and I can’t remember it ! What I’ve had since is a date of birth. I was ‘born again’ 30 years ago and it’s been a fruitful journey since, full of mistakes, love, stupidity, some truly inspired moments, great memories, average living, insights and events that are too shameful or embarrassing for me to think about..... And it hasn’t finished yet.
One a con, always a con. This guy used the Manson name to push his agenda and was involved with the other con, Catherine Share. I heard recently one of the guys involved said the Hawthorne shoot out had absolutely nothing to do with Manson or any plot to free him.
ReplyDeleteAgreed
DeleteDo you mean once a con or one a con...Go back to school.
Delete"In memory of"???? Ask the cops he shot at and bragged about in your video who caught his stupid ass!
ReplyDeletePLEASE Keep this SECRET:
ReplyDeleteEverytime Dennis Rice's name comes up, I am forced to look in the mirror, simply because HE was just like YOU and ME - EXCEPT he crossed that line in the sand.
Actually, ALL except Charlie and possibly "TEX" were just like YOU and ME.
Even the regular guys who participated in the Mi Lai Massacre were just like YOU and ME, EXCEPT they also crossed that magic line - drawn in the sand by a society.
There are over 50,000 names on the Vietnam Wall, BUT the two most relevant names are missing - John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. Figure that one out and YOU will be a on a mental par with GOD.
This YouTube was obviously made by someone close to Dennis who believed in his brand of religion, hence the In Memory title. I had never seen Dennis in "action" and had no idea that he hawked religion like he was selling snake oil out of the back of a covered wagon.
ReplyDeleteIt's difficult to understand how it can be said that Dennis found God and that God turned his life around. It seems to me that Dennis simply exchanged one con for another, a more lucrative and socially acceptable con.
Dennis believed in sky fairies. What a loser.
ReplyDeleteDebS said...
ReplyDelete"It seems to me that Dennis simply exchanged one con for another, a more lucrative and socially acceptable con"
Boots said...
"Dennis believed in sky fairies. What a loser"
Ouch !
DebS said...
"It's difficult to understand how it can be said that Dennis found God and that God turned his life around"
It's difficult to understand a whole range of things that other people nonetheless are able to understand. I have a mate who got a first class degree at Oxford and his Phd at Cambridge and he finds it impossible, not just difficult, to understand paradoxes. Whereas thick ol' me finds it simple. I, on the other hand find it difficult to understand algebra or Pythagoras.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteInteresting video. Thanks Charlie!
ReplyDeleteYes, thanks Chats. That was an enjoyable 6 minutes. He did some horrible things as a young man but he dedicated the rest of his life to helping people, sky fairies notwithstanding.
ReplyDeleteWhether or not Jesus is the Son of God, and whether or not there is a God,
ReplyDeleteif it's real for these people and makes it so they can have a good attitude
and stay out of prison I'm all for it. Hallelujah!
If someone can get a good attitude in prison without seeking God, that's
great too.
Now I'm off to prove I'm not a robot.
El Popo SAY: "You NO like my Cream of Snake Oil soup" ?
ReplyDeleteNO more Manson-Blog YOU !
Well, he hooked up with Catherine Share. Share never went "straight", despite her phoney born again BS. Even as far back as 1970, it seems she was a wheeler and dealer interested in cashing in on what was happening. Now she'll do any interview, but for a price (so as long as you don't bring up her role in the murder of Shorty Shea, I imagine). Bill Nelson was an idiot, but his chapter on her is one of the better in Manson Behind the Scenes.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if this is legit and if Dennis had anything to do with the way the flyers were written up but I found this DEPLORABLE!
ReplyDelete(Sharon Tate's baby will save the world)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201220692273?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
What if I want to comment here but I actually AM a robot?
ReplyDeleteDiscrimination!
Sharon Tate's Baby was a punk rock band and that is a flyer for one of their shows..lol
ReplyDeleteThanks D. LaCalandra this description gives the wrong impression:
ReplyDeleteNote: AN ODD, rare leaflet by a Manson follower making money on the church circuit.
ARTIST: unknown
Wow Dennis Rice. The moral hypocrite who left his kids at Spahn to be raised by vagrants. Fuck him.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you Col and find the Chicken Coop incident with Dennis's children appalling, more so than the kids being at Spahn Ranch.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mansonblog.com/2013/08/chicken-coop-cave-and-children.html
Hey Grimm Traveler: I love YOUR "paradoxes" comment.
ReplyDeleteCan you give me your take on Manson's comment at the end of MANSON 1973 movie: "I've been pay'in for YOUR sins for two thousand years - I'm getting tired of paying for your sins." ?
Or anyone else ?
In My humble opinion good riddance I think about those beautiful little blonde hair blue eye kids living in the squalor of Spahn ranch after he the horrible crimes it's no loss
ReplyDeleteYes Col we usually don't agree on most things but on this one absolutely & I miss your blog Hello Matt Ms Patty Mr Hendrickson & my friend Equinox
ReplyDeleteAnyone want to hear about the "GANG Initiation" motive ?
ReplyDeleteAnyone already know what that is ?
I honestly can't see why a father would leave his kids with a bunch of strangers. Didn't he leave them with them like the first day they met? The Chicken Coop incident was just horrible.
ReplyDeleteRH. Yes please. And no I don't.
ReplyDeleteEmbrosia - I agree. As any father would tell you, it goes against your every instinct.
ReplyDeleteThen again, one can see why Manson might have deep-seated personal reasons for wanting to diminish the importance of the role of the parent.
I never really understood why Manson wanted the children separated from their parent. I know that he did it because he believed that parents filled their child's head with shit, but I feel like it goes much deeper than that. His childhood, as been told millions of times, has been quite harsh for him but then again, he's the one that messed that up completely. His mother probably was the huge figure behind the whole 'separation of child and parent.' I feel like I just rambled on, sorry.
ReplyDeleteRobert, I don't know anything about the 'Gang Initiation Motive,' but I do know what Gang Initiation means.
D. Lacalandra thanks for the tidbit about Shorty Shea. Patty always wondered which girl was there.
ReplyDeleteHi William! Xo
ReplyDeleteJ.E may I recommend a good Psychiatrist You definitely have some issues
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think a person can do horrible things and then turn their life around. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Most of the people in the Manson group were very young and have had decades to grow up. I don't know why Dennis Rice would go preach in prisons if he didn't believe his own message. He could have stayed away from prisons and not be reminded of his time there. Yes Col., I know I'm stupid-thank you in advance.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to her about the gang initiation motive. Manson shooting Crowe, Bobby offing Hinman...was it Tex's turn to step up to the plate? Davis and Clem did theirs with Shorty. But then again, this seemed like a fairly tight knit bunch. I'm not sure killing would have been needed to reach ONE. Unless it was Manson's way to make sure all got their hands dirty to have something on them unless they opened their holes about Crowe and Hinman....BUT the fact nearly everyone and their brother, including Brooks knowing about Crowe and Shea kinda files that in the "nope" folder.
ReplyDeleteBut then again, Charlie is a product of the prison system. Where I am pretty sure sticking a knife in somebody can earn you quite a bit.
D. LaCalandra: "I'm not sure killing would have been needed to reach ONE. Unless it was Manson's way to make sure all got their hands dirty to have something on them unless they opened their holes about Crowe and Hinman...."
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to think that factored into it to some degree. Everyone getting their hands dirty would have just tied them even closer to Charlie, and given him more power over them. Especially because, as the only one with any criminal experience, they'd naturally turn to him for Guidance (and also to help clean up their messes... tho cleaning up after a bunch of angry middle-class kids acting out against Daddy couldn't have been a lot of Fun).
"Dennis believed in sky fairies. What a loser."
I can think of worse stars to hitch your wagon to.
FUNNY - I said to myself: "Self, if anyone can begin to grasp "Gang Initiation" it will be La Calandra."
ReplyDeleteIn LA, we are having murders - as usual - BUT something about these current ones is NOT usual. The only thing common to them is NO commonality.
So we also have a radio show with a team of hosts who really get down and put their heads together concerning news stories. AND they rang a bell.
FIRST they came-up with "random" KILLINGS, BUT "killers" with something in common --- DING, DONG !
THEN, one spouted out: "It could be a "GANG" initiation ! Certain Gang initiations demand that YOUR "first" KILLING be "random."
AND of course, IF YOU can KILL "anyone" for NO reason - YOU can KILL
"ANYONE." DING, DONG, DING, DONG.
Thing of the above as the appatizer - anyone know what's for dinner ?
Dinner = rogue LAPD cops!
ReplyDeleteProbably not, I read too much Ellroy...
The sequel to Manson 73.......
ReplyDeleteInside the Manson Family?
Nope, Inside the Manson GANG
I don't think there was anything random about the murders though and despite what a lot of people think and Bugliosi's notion he's a blood thristy mass murderer, I don't believe senseless violence is something Charlie is into. I actually do believe he has a moral code and can and will get his hands dirty when he feels it's necessary.
ReplyDeleteWow, RH and LaCalandra. That motive on Charlie's part makes sense to me as one of the considerations. Everyone gets their hands dirty. No one rats on me.
ReplyDeleteWell, that's pretty much what Atkins said in her last book. That after Crowe, he was trying to get the hands dirty of everyone who knew.
ReplyDeleteHere is a general quote from online:
"Soldiers and close associates are expected to follow any orders and to eventually participate in a mafia related killing at some time, thus binding them to their officially affiliated crime family, associate faction or group and to determine their loyalty and trustworthiness"
Kinda makes you wonder about his disappearing acts on the night of LaBianca. But then again (a lot of then agains in this case), nobody ever forced Kasabian to bloody her knife.
As I said, in Atkins book, she pretty much said after Crowe, the summer of '69 was about Manson trying to bind everyone to him.
Kinda scary when you consider Poston said Manson told him if he loved him, he'd kill the Sheriff. But we don't know how much of what was said as jokes and in jist that Poston made seem like it was serious. He seemed like a kid who took everything litterarlly.
Well, let me put you to it this way,
ReplyDeleteYou can moralize and feel good about yourself because you never committed a violent crime.. On the other hand, what causes this kind of aggression?
Do Canadians act this way? Do Finnish people act this way? Do Mexicans act this way? This King of the Hill win or lose or go home way of thinking.
But fuck all of yall. You getting your ass kicked by ISIS like you get your ass kicked by everybody that fights back. They leaving the Gays alone now.
So pick on the Hispanics, Donald Trump. That be your downfall.
At the end of their rope, I guess people want to believe in something, and will fall back into what their folks believed in.
ReplyDeleteBut that isn't fact. It's human frailty.
The search for truth should be ongoing. And without prejudice.
There isn't a single nation, or church, or ideaology that has the world figured out.
If I'm in the wrong, show me where I'm wrong. Peace.
ReplyDeleteBlogger william marshall said...
Yes Col we usually don't agree on most things but on this one absolutely & I miss your blog Hello Matt Ms Patty Mr Hendrickson & my friend Equinox
Hi William,
Hope you are keeping well at the moment and continue to go from strength to strength. God Bless You, my friend.
Robert Hendrickson said...
ReplyDelete'Hey Grimm Traveler: I love YOUR "paradoxes" comment.
Can you give me your take on Manson's comment at the end of MANSON 1973 movie: "I've been pay'in for YOUR sins for two thousand years - I'm getting tired of paying for your sins." ?'
I think Charlie was boxing clever there. Again being paradoxical and “reflecting” his perception of the media’s perception of him as this guy that implied he was Christ, “the hippie cult leader.” But also not taking responsibility for what lay behind his conviction. Even to this day {or at least in the most recent books about him} he speaks of how the whole shebang was dumped on him........like he was/is paying for other peoples' shit.
Embrosia said...
"I honestly can't see why a father would leave his kids with a bunch of strangers"
No strange thing here in England, the amount of kids in care and Dads that won’t care for them.
Embrosia said...
"I never really understood why Manson wanted the children separated from their parent"
I think Charlie is a paradox ~ “out there” in some ways, just like anyone else in others. After all he’s human. He hurts. He bleeds. He gets pissed off. He laughs. He can be spiteful; “I never had my mommy. Neither will you !”
Remember, for all the pain she caused him, he made it to the age of 32 without his Mum so he possibly felt that children could survive without parents.
Mr. Humphrat said...
"I think a person can do horrible things and then turn their life around. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Most of the people in the Manson group were very young and have had decades to grow up"
Absolutely. People change. There are different levels of change. Some of the group seem to have changed in jail. There have been people that did outrageous things in war that are now different people. Also, part of the reason why some of the TLB killers have appeared to change their stories could be simply that they grew up. They realized the world wasn't coming to a close, they were facing life in prison and they woke up. "Cripes ! I didn't bargain for this !!"
Vermouth Brilliantine said...
"Everyone getting their hands dirty would have just tied them even closer to Charlie, and given him more power over them. Especially because, as the only one with any criminal experience, they'd naturally turn to him for Guidance (and also to help clean up their messes...)"
Yeah, worked wonders for Bobby.
D. LaCalandra said...
"Well, that's pretty much what Atkins said in her last book. That after Crowe, he was trying to get the hands dirty of everyone who knew"
I think there’s some truth in that. That it blew up in his face tells us what a great idea it was.
TomG said...
"The search for truth should be ongoing. And without prejudice.
There isn't a single nation, or church, or ideaology that has the world figured out"
To that, all I can say as one that has for the last 30 years lived the experience that begins with being born again, the search for truth with Christ is ongoing. I know many of my number feel that life kind of stops because the major question has been answered. But it’s a journey, a street that never ends because God is not static, but dynamic. And not easy to constantly gauge. The error, for me at least, is in referring to oneself as ‘born again’ in an ongoing sense. I know why we do it, it’s making a statement of sorts, that life has begun again. But for me, it’s a daft term. When I was an atheist, I didn’t walk around referring to myself as ‘born’. I’ve long told people, I only ever had one birthday and I can’t remember it ! What I’ve had since is a date of birth. I was ‘born again’ 30 years ago and it’s been a fruitful journey since, full of mistakes, love, stupidity, some truly inspired moments, great memories, average living, insights and events that are too shameful or embarrassing for me to think about.....
And it hasn’t finished yet.
Is that Robert Hendrickson/ Mr. Hendrickson that man that made the documentary?
ReplyDeleteWe
Jenny: Yes.
ReplyDeleteWhen did Dennis pass
ReplyDeleteDate of Dennis passing and age of Diane von Ahn time arrest at Barker's
ReplyDelete