Sharon seemed extremely close to her family, especially her mom, yet they were absent from one of the most important days of her life? Weird. But, then again, maybe they couldn't up & leave like that. Maybe Sharon's sisters were in school, etc. I wonder if her parents approved of her choice in Roman?
Interesting how both Humphant and Ann realize something new out of something old. Like most of you, every time I see Sharon Tate I ask myself "Why her" ? What is the connection ?
What IF the answer is: NO connection, exception THAT is the connection. AND the same for LaBianca's
I just heard something relevant last night. Without a MOTIVE there is "reasonable doubt."
So was MANSON that clever ? AND was Bugliosi that ingenious - that HE knew he HAD to CREATE a motive ?
WARNING - There's some real THINKING going on at the MansonBlog !!
Motive is one of those things that, while not legally required for prosecution, lack of explaining a potential motive can cause a jury to find reasonable doubt. Motive allows a jury to experience that "ah ha" moment, where everything clicks. Without that moment, holes in a case look much larger...
Motive is obvious. Manson was insanely jealous that a creepy short little weirdo like Polanski had bagged himself a beautiful blonde Hollywood starlet, while creepy short little weirdo Manson had to make-do with a clutch of hairy syphilitic brunettes. I think that was the crux of Bugliosi's case wasn't it?
People act like Sharon was such a great person just because she was murdered. She dumped her boyfriend because he was just a glorified barber. She thought being married to Polanski would give her more prestige and weight in Hollywood. SHE SOLD OUT.
Healter, maybe you're right. But you can't know that unless you have the power to look into another's heart.
For all we know, Jay could have been a crashing bore, a narcissist, a drug-addled sack of vanity. He could, indeed, have been even worse than Polanski! Maybe Sharon got tired of hearing about styling products and how pretty she was, and enjoyed talking culture and cinema with the tiny Pole.
Maybe RP was a magnificent miniature lover! Maybe he was so short that a certain part looked relatively huge? Maybe she just loved him more. Maybe.
I do agree there's a whole lot of exaggerated Sharon-love out there. One often sees even the mediocrity of her talent held up as a virtue in itself and relabelled 'modesty'. I agree, it's partly because she was murdered, partly because she was pregnant and murdered.
And partly because the more saintly we paint her, the more vile Manson et al appear to be; and we need them to appear truly satanic...
Michael. A woman as beautiful as Sharon would not give a runt like Roman the time of day if he wasn't rich and famous. Sharon knew she had no talent and hoped Polanski would make her a star even though she had nothing to offer but her looks.
Healter Skelter, I can't disprove your comments anymore than you can prove your psychological profile of Sharon's motivations in dumping Sebring for Polanski.
Who are any of us to judge a person we've never met? But, I will remind you of this: when Sharon met Polanski and eventually dumped Sebring, Polanski was not rich or famous and far from the Hollywood golden boy he eventually became. He was a struggling Polish emigre filmmaker who had, yes, won awards for his foreign films, but had yet to have his first major American feature film released. Rosemary's Baby was a long way from being released and hailed.
At the time, if you were to look at the "what can they do for my career" meter, Sebring (as you say) the glorified barber, had much more to offer Sharon for her career because he knew a lot of major Hollywood players. Through him, Sharon was hanging out with McQueen, Sinatra, the rat pack, Warren Beatty Paul Newman, etc.
Dillgaf: More of your professional comments are greatly needed here, but I'm sure you realized most folks (on a jury) don't have a clue as to what is really going on. They know how to play a "rock" in a stage play about the moon and are TOLD that's ALL that is required of them. They are apparently PAID proportionately AND that is what WE call JUSTICE.
Cab Driver - take'm to the prison !
Mailman - they get 2 letters a day !
Clerk - That will be $5 for a pack of cigarettes !
Most everybody else: _ HE must be guilty, otherwise why did the policeman arrest him ?
I agree Cindy...can't look into someone else's heart...seems like she was very loved by her friends. Michael: "clutch of hairy syphilitic brunettes" LOL Robert: "They know how to play a "rock" in a stage play about the moon and are TOLD that's ALL that is required of them" LOL I was also thinking if Dennis Wilson hadn't picked up Patricia and Ella hitchhiking that day, maybe the family never would have even seen Cielo Drive.
I can only second the appreciation already given to this superb line:
They know how to play a "rock" in a stage play about the moon and are TOLD that's ALL that is required of them
Simply wonderful.
I recently finished reading Jeffrey Toobin's The Run of His Life: The People v. O.J. Simpson - and I don't think I will ever have any great confidence in the verdict of a trial jury ever again.
Sharon was not a "star" as far as being known as a actress this is true but she was very well known and popular with all of the big name photograghers of the time. David Bailey, Milton Greene, Walter Chappell, etc. I can't think of a celebrity photographer ( although I'm sure there are a few)who didn't work with her actually. I've always thought of Sharon as more of a model and fashion icon of her time more than I do an actress. As far as the wedding goes, they had a reception when they returned to the United States as well and I have never heard of or seen any pictures of her family attending that either. Kind of strange- Doris seemed very fond of Roman after her death, I'm not sure about Col. Tate though- I know he stayed close with Jay Sebring.
A woman as beautiful as Sharon would not give a runt like Roman the time of day if he wasn't rich and famous. Sharon knew she had no talent and hoped Polanski would make her a star even though she had nothing to offer but her looks.
It's hard for me personally to be objective or judgmental about this; my Polish wife overlooked the mediocrity of my own talents and married me solely for my staggering good looks. Some days I feel like a designer poodle in a handbag...
Sharon had a lot of things handed to her in life that she really didn't deserve. She got all her fame and money simply because she was born pretty. There are women murdered every day that are poor or ugly and nobody gives a rats ass except their family. I just think all the boo hoo hooing over Sharon has gotten out of hand.
HS, that was about the most insensitive thing I've heard someone say in quite some time.
No one gets anything handed to them just because they are pretty. Models need poise, confidence and an ability to take direction. Even B-move actresses have a certain amount of talent.
The TLB murders are not well-known because Sharon Tate was pretty. Maybe you should brush-up on the facts.
Interesting that Candice Bergen was there. Was she the connection that got the Polanskis into Cielo Dr?
ReplyDeleteSharon seemed extremely close to her family, especially her mom, yet they were absent from one of the most important days of her life? Weird. But, then again, maybe they couldn't up & leave like that. Maybe Sharon's sisters were in school, etc. I wonder if her parents approved of her choice in Roman?
ReplyDeleteInteresting how both Humphant and Ann realize something new out of something old.
ReplyDeleteLike most of you, every time I see Sharon Tate I ask myself "Why her" ? What is the connection ?
What IF the answer is: NO connection, exception THAT is the connection. AND the same for LaBianca's
I just heard something relevant last night. Without a MOTIVE there is "reasonable doubt."
So was MANSON that clever ? AND was Bugliosi that ingenious - that HE knew he HAD to CREATE a motive ?
WARNING - There's some real THINKING going on at the MansonBlog !!
AustinAnn, I've always wondered about the absence of the Tates at Sharon's wedding, too. It just doesn't make sense to me.
ReplyDeleteRobert,
ReplyDeleteMotive is one of those things that, while not legally required for prosecution, lack of explaining a potential motive can cause a jury to find reasonable doubt. Motive allows a jury to experience that "ah ha" moment, where everything clicks. Without that moment, holes in a case look much larger...
Motive is obvious. Manson was insanely jealous that a creepy short little weirdo like Polanski had bagged himself a beautiful blonde Hollywood starlet, while creepy short little weirdo Manson had to make-do with a clutch of hairy syphilitic brunettes. I think that was the crux of Bugliosi's case wasn't it?
ReplyDeletePeople act like Sharon was such a great person just because she was murdered. She dumped her boyfriend because he was just a glorified barber. She thought being married to Polanski would give her more prestige and weight in Hollywood.
ReplyDeleteSHE SOLD OUT.
From everything I have read & heard, Sharon was a very nice person.
DeleteHealter, maybe you're right. But you can't know that unless you have the power to look into another's heart.
ReplyDeleteFor all we know, Jay could have been a crashing bore, a narcissist, a drug-addled sack of vanity. He could, indeed, have been even worse than Polanski! Maybe Sharon got tired of hearing about styling products and how pretty she was, and enjoyed talking culture and cinema with the tiny Pole.
Maybe RP was a magnificent miniature lover! Maybe he was so short that a certain part looked relatively huge? Maybe she just loved him more. Maybe.
I do agree there's a whole lot of exaggerated Sharon-love out there. One often sees even the mediocrity of her talent held up as a virtue in itself and relabelled 'modesty'. I agree, it's partly because she was murdered, partly because she was pregnant and murdered.
And partly because the more saintly we paint her, the more vile Manson et al appear to be; and we need them to appear truly satanic...
You got that right!
DeleteMichael. A woman as beautiful as Sharon would not give a runt like Roman the time of day if he wasn't rich and famous. Sharon knew she had no talent and hoped Polanski would make her a star even though she had nothing to offer but her looks.
ReplyDeletep.s. People forget that Sharon was NOT a star when she died.
ReplyDeleteDeath made her a star.
Healter Skelter, I can't disprove your comments anymore than you can prove your psychological profile of Sharon's motivations in dumping Sebring for Polanski.
ReplyDeleteWho are any of us to judge a person we've never met? But, I will remind you of this: when Sharon met Polanski and eventually dumped Sebring, Polanski was not rich or famous and far from the Hollywood golden boy he eventually became. He was a struggling Polish emigre filmmaker who had, yes, won awards for his foreign films, but had yet to have his first major American feature film released. Rosemary's Baby was a long way from being released and hailed.
At the time, if you were to look at the "what can they do for my career" meter, Sebring (as you say) the glorified barber, had much more to offer Sharon for her career because he knew a lot of major Hollywood players. Through him, Sharon was hanging out with McQueen, Sinatra, the rat pack, Warren Beatty Paul Newman, etc.
Dillgaf: More of your professional comments are greatly needed here, but I'm sure you realized most folks (on a jury) don't have a clue as to what is really going on. They know how to play a "rock" in a stage play about the moon and are TOLD that's ALL that is required of them. They are apparently PAID proportionately AND that is what WE call JUSTICE.
ReplyDeleteCab Driver - take'm to the prison !
Mailman - they get 2 letters a day !
Clerk - That will be $5 for a pack of cigarettes !
Most everybody else: _ HE must be guilty, otherwise why did the policeman arrest him ?
I agree Cindy...can't look into someone else's heart...seems like she was very loved by her friends.
ReplyDeleteMichael: "clutch of hairy syphilitic brunettes" LOL
Robert: "They know how to play a "rock" in a stage play about the moon and are TOLD that's ALL that is required of them" LOL
I was also thinking if Dennis Wilson hadn't picked up Patricia and Ella hitchhiking that day, maybe the family never would have even seen Cielo Drive.
I can only second the appreciation already given to this superb line:
ReplyDeleteThey know how to play a "rock" in a stage play about the moon and are TOLD that's ALL that is required of them
Simply wonderful.
I recently finished reading Jeffrey Toobin's The Run of His Life: The People v. O.J. Simpson - and I don't think I will ever have any great confidence in the verdict of a trial jury ever again.
Sharon was not a "star" as far as being known as a actress this is true but she was very well known and popular with all of the big name photograghers of the time. David Bailey, Milton Greene, Walter Chappell, etc. I can't think of a celebrity photographer ( although I'm sure there are a few)who didn't work with her actually. I've always thought of Sharon as more of a model and fashion icon of her time more than I do an actress. As far as the wedding goes, they had a reception when they returned to the United States as well and I have never heard of or seen any pictures of her family attending that either. Kind of strange- Doris seemed very fond of Roman after her death, I'm not sure about Col. Tate though- I know he stayed close with Jay Sebring.
ReplyDeleteA woman as beautiful as Sharon would not give a runt like Roman the time of day if he wasn't rich and famous. Sharon knew she had no talent and hoped Polanski would make her a star even though she had nothing to offer but her looks.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard for me personally to be objective or judgmental about this; my Polish wife overlooked the mediocrity of my own talents and married me solely for my staggering good looks. Some days I feel like a designer poodle in a handbag...
Sharon had a lot of things handed to her in life that she really didn't deserve. She got all her fame and money simply because she was born pretty. There are women murdered every day that are poor or ugly and nobody gives a rats ass except their family. I just think all the boo hoo hooing over Sharon has gotten out of hand.
ReplyDeleteThere are women murdered every day that are poor or ugly and nobody gives a rats ass except their family.
ReplyDelete100% agree. I hate it when a woman's physical beauty is factored as a tragedy-multiplier after her murder, and the media do it all the time.
Krissy - do you know where exactly they had their US wedding reception? Was it somewhere as tacky as the Playboy club?
HS, that was about the most insensitive thing I've heard someone say in quite some time.
ReplyDeleteNo one gets anything handed to them just because they are pretty. Models need poise, confidence and an ability to take direction. Even B-move actresses have a certain amount of talent.
The TLB murders are not well-known because Sharon Tate was pretty. Maybe you should brush-up on the facts.