"Marina Habe’s body was found on New Year’s Day, 1969, by a dog. The body had been tossed to the bottom of a ravine off Mulholland Drive, and when police arrived, the dog’s owner said he wanted to be sure his name got in the paper.
Every detail of Marina’s murder and the time on either side of it left some sliver of absurdity. She was 17, coming home alone late at night from a date, got to her driveway and then, as her mother watched from a window—awakened by the sound of a racing engine and not knowing whether the man standing beside her daughter’s car was friend or foe—disappeared into another car. The coroner said she was held for a day, fed, raped, and stabbed."
continue reading the story here-
http://www.lamag.com/features/1988/06/01/the-charlie-conspiracy/page/1
Only 17 and already a striking beauty. Patty has never seen nor heard this before.
ReplyDeleteThere is a photo of her on ebay... first time I have ever seen
DeleteIn the article, the "Israeli with intelligence connections" was Ronald Stark. They are talking about the BEL.
ReplyDeleteHey Patty,
ReplyDeleteI'm planning an off-topic article on her soon.
She actually had a very interesting life outside of her tragic demise.
If the article is correct, Maurey Terry claims that an FBI operative was at dinner in San Francisco with Abigail Folger, Manson, and Shorty Shea in September 1967. That would mean Shorty and Charlie met before the family moved to Spahn in 68. Is there any other evidence of this?
ReplyDeleteThat's a controversial one...
ReplyDeleteI think I read about an earlier connection somewhere but, can't remember where. It may have even based on what Terry said.
ReplyDeleteThis particular paragraph grabbed me:
ReplyDeleteThe most frightened part of what Terry is suggesting, of course, is that most of the satanic groups that were actively involved in crime in the ‘70s are still in place and still active. Furthermore, he says, they have become increasingly involved in child pornography and cocaine distribution. He insists that police are aware of the organizations and often swap information with him, but they are slow to pick up on the vast threat posed by satanists.
Patty, have you ever smelled a connection between Satanists & BEL?
nope. Patty is of the opinion that all the Satanist talk is a relic of America's "Satanic Panic." It welled up during the 70s and was in full swing by the 80s when this article was written. When Patty was in high school, it was all the rage for ministers to play rock music backwards from the pulpit and imagine that there were subliminal satanic messages mixed in. Rob Halford got blamed for the Nightstalker at one point...
ReplyDeleteps have you sent Patty's books back yet?
ReplyDeletePanamint Patty said...
ReplyDeletenope. Patty is of the opinion that all the Satanist talk is a relic of America's "Satanic Panic." It welled up during the 70s and was in full swing by the 80s when this article was written. When Patty was in high school, it was all the rage for ministers to play rock music backwards from the pulpit and imagine that there were subliminal satanic messages mixed in. Rob Halford got blamed for the Nightstalker at one point...
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When I lived in base housing at MCAS El Toro in back in the 80s one of my neighbors told me I should stop listening to AC/DC because it stood for Anti Christ/Devil's Children. Another guy told me I should stop going to Grateful Dead shows because his minister told him that they have Satanic faith healings backstage. The Satanic Panic was absolutely ridiculous in my opinion.
Yeah, the Rob Halford thing..... Those two kids heard the words "do it" and they committed suicide. How did they know that "do it" didn't mean get a haircut and get a job?.....
thanks Doc, Patty goofed on the Halford thing. it was so long ago. we r getting OLD LOL
ReplyDeletei thought the autopsy proved she was not raped- what is the real word on that?
ReplyDeleteDoes anybody know how close Marina's body was to Jane Doe 59's body on Mulholland?
ReplyDeleteDoc Sierra said...
ReplyDeleteDoes anybody know how close Marina's body was to Jane Doe 59's body on Mulholland?
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Jane Doe was found on Mulholland at the intersection of Laurel Canyon.
Marina was found on Mulholland 100 yards west of Bowmont.
On a map, it looks to me to be about two miles apart.
Thanks Deb.
ReplyDelete@Doc. Sierra & patty... You guys mix up two seperate things with the Judas Priest case. The song that might have inspired Ramirez called ,,NightCrawler,, its on the Defenders of the Faith album. But I do think its not true. The other case about the two young boys from Reno, who commited suicide,(1survived the shot in his Mouth,and lived another few years with a terrible deformed Face,but dies later from a pain medication overdose)that was the song ,,Better By You Better than Me,, And indeed there was a Lawsuit against Judas Priest because the Religious Fanatic Parents sayd there were messages in the Album ,,Stained Glass,, The Parents lost the Lawsuit. The Judge could NOT here the ,Do Its, in that song wich even isnt written by Judas Priest but its an old Spooky-Tooth song. If you are interested, there is a Docu about this case on YouTube called ,,Dream Decievers,, Now back to Manson.....I always wonder what the motif was , IF the Family murdered Maria Habe. Was she somewhat Important,or Dangerous to them/Charlie ???
ReplyDeleteanything heavy metal we should refer to you, Bellz. :)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Patty about the whole "satanic panic" era. I was in High school when that was in full force. Still got somewhere the Synopsis from Civics (of all things) class telling the evils of all that bad music. Maybe that helped to make me a Rock and Roller. Also hits close to one of the other cases I have followed ever since the beginning. The West Memphis 3.
ReplyDeleteThe Night Stalker, Ramirez, just died in prison. He was in his 50s. I always found him sooo scary.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they had anything to do with her murder. It's the convenient way for LAPD to not look like they have so many unsolved murders. Hey let's just blame it on Manson! Just like all the unsolved murders in the Bay Area: hey let's just blame em all on the zodiac!
ReplyDelete(The album was "Stained Class" and Judas Priest was acquitted of the two boys who committed suicide while listening to "Beyond the Realms..". "Defenders of the Faith" was from 1984.)
ReplyDeleteHow many murders were there in LA (or Beverly Hills) in 1969? Maybe start there and work backwards towards Charlie.
Did anyone ever report Mr. LaBianca’s missing wallet?
Heidi,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info. I didn't know he had died.
The Wikipedia article says he had received two serious head injuries in his youth. I've noticed serious blows to the head occurred to other serial killers too.
Thankz patty,.. and yeah I know a lot about Metal kind of Music....RockMusic in general. Part of my life I guess... And @Heidi, Yeah He died about a month ago, and I hope it was a PainFull Death for him.
ReplyDelete@Rob...I know ,Defenders of the Faith was was from 84...and had nothing to do with those Reno boys. I was refering to the song NightCrawler, that said to inspire the NightStalker. Wich is not treu. The suicide issue was about Better By You Better than Me. Not about Beyond the Realms. In fact that was coincidence .
ReplyDelete(@Hellz: Ozzy was also accused of influencing a suicide via "Suicide Solution". Lawyer claimed "Shoot, shoot" was in the song and in "Paranoid": "I tell you to end your life" when the lyrics were actually "I tell you to enjoy your life, I wish I could but it's too late". "Nightcrawler" was from 1990. Rob Halford is a teddy bear and not Satanic. But this is off-topic.)
ReplyDeleteMax Frost said...
ReplyDeleteI don't think they had anything to do with her murder. It's the convenient way for LAPD to not look like they have so many unsolved murders. Hey let's just blame it on Manson! Just like all the unsolved murders in the Bay Area: hey let's just blame em all on the zodiac!
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I would agree with that. Marina was abducted at the very end of 1968 which was before things started going sideways with the Family. Also she had been away at college, in Hawaii, and was home for the Christmas holidays. Presumably the semester started in the fall of 1968, so would not have had any recent contact with the Family.
I'm not exactly certain where Manson and the others were around Christmas 1968. Some sources have Manson in the Reno area with Charlene Cafritz around that time.
I recall when the Satanic Panic was on all the TV talk shows in the 80s from the 700 Club to Gerlado. I especially remember the McMartin preschool case. From Wikipedia:
ReplyDeleteThe McMartin preschool trial was a day care sexual abuse case of the 1980s. Members of the McMartin family, who operated a preschool in California, were charged with numerous acts of sexual abuse of children in their care. Accusations were made in 1983. Arrests and the pretrial investigation ran from 1984 to 1987, and the trial ran from 1987 to 1990. After six years of criminal trials, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. When the trial ended in 1990 it had been the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history. The case was part of day care sex abuse hysteria, a moral panic over alleged Satanic ritual abuse in the 1980s and early 1990s.
HellzBellz said...
ReplyDelete@Rob...I know ,Defenders of the Faith was was from 84...and had nothing to do with those Reno boys. I was refering to the song NightCrawler, that said to inspire the NightStalker. Wich is not treu. The suicide issue was about Better By You Better than Me. Not about Beyond the Realms. In fact that was coincidence .
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The song that supposedly inspired Ramirez was Night Prowler off of 1979s Highway To Hell album, one of my favorite AC/DC albums. I saw them in concert several times in the late 70s. They were the opening act at a lot of Bay Area concerts that were produced by the late, great Bill Graham.
I lived in base housing at MCAS El Toro, in southern Orange County when Ramirez was active. The fear was palpable back then. I worked weekends as an xray tech at a minor emergency clinic called Emergi-Care Center on Oso Parkway in Mission Viejo. One of our patients, Carnes or Carns if I remember correctly was a victim. I don't remember this man but I looked in his chart and earlier that summer I had documented his vital signs so I must have had contact with him.
Diane Feinstein really showed here grand standing ass when she held a press conference and gave away Ramiriez's brand of shoes, which he promptly took to the Golden Gate Bridge and tossed them in the drink.
Ramirez not only had the head injuries but his uncle used to show him photos of mutilated bodies from his time in Vietnam. Ramirez also witnessed that same uncle murder his wife. I wonder if Ramirez actually made it to Disneyland.
manson also attended a 68/69 new years party at john and michelle Phillips house in Beverly hills.
ReplyDeleteDeb:
ReplyDelete"Jane Doe was found on Mulholland at the intersection of Laurel Canyon.
Marina was found on Mulholland 100 yards west of Bowmont.
On a map, it looks to me to be about two miles apart."
It seems shorter than than in person, but I'm sure the map is correct!
Jenn
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ReplyDelete@Rob.....my Bad,NightCrawler is indeed from 1990. The Painkiller Album... sorrie. @ Doc, you right about the AC DC thing and Ramirez. Did read about that. But now On Topic again, stumbled on this while researching Miss Cafritz. Some interesting Pics http://youre-guilty-until-proven-innocent.blogspot.nl/ some I never have seen... especially foto Number 41,...but okay, I am a lil ,Blue, in this Manson Saga. And Far Far away from it. So you USA guys might have seen them all before somewhere.
ReplyDeleteThere is more info about the Shea/Folger/Manson connection in The Ultimate Evil
ReplyDeleteI was with Maury in California, we met Marina's family and reopened her case, unfortunately, for all of you we succeeded but you will never get to read his second book.
ReplyDeleteMaury died before the second book was completed, I wish I could tell the world what was in it, but I promised him I wouldn't.
My name is Barbara, and I loved him very much!
Read acknowledgement
I was with Maur in California well after book 1. We met Marina's family and reopened the case and Maur solved it. Unfortunately, no one will ever read book 2, I wish I could tell the world but I can't. Since Maur died of course it's the families decision.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Barbara and I loved him very much!
I'm sorry none of you will know how honest, loving, and brilliant he was.
Have been fascinated by her case since I realized it's always been a part of my life. My money was on Tex Watson for a while. Even though several articles stated that it might not be possible, considering her mother was an actress, she probably met all kinds of interesting people. I also considered her step-brother and / or the John Hornburg guy whose house she had come from. But I wouldn't exclude a satanic cult, not so much one that actively decided to summon some demons, but those who were high enough on drugs that they would consider doing a human sacrifice. Then again, if her boyfriend was in Vietnam, someone could have had issues with that as well. I think whoever killed her knew what they were going for, they we're targeting her deliberately, a good, Catholic girl, a virgin. Question remains if they knew her well enough to stay put and wait for her to get home, or if they trailed her from somewhere, seeing a lonely girl driving alone in her Porsche.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know she was a Virgin: late sixties, free love, pretty, got home from dates place after 3:00 am (think they were talking about their lessons all night? Doubtful. Dancing more likely - as in horizontal Watusi with her [5 years her senior] date at his swing in' bachelor-pad!) Virgin you say? Maybe on Sunday morning !
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