Click HERE to read the forum.
Wednesday, April 17, 2013
Ex-Scientologists Argue Scientology's involvement in Manson & Zodiac killings
"Anybody who tries to downplay Scientology's involvement in Manson & Zodiac killings is part of misinformation campaign"
On this message board you can observe a recent discussion among Ex-Scientologists regarding the Zodiac & Manson murders' Scientology connection.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
24 comments:
Yeah I herd Manson and Osama Bin Laden were in cahoots too. They met at a dumpster and cave convention in Las Vegas in 1967.
Charlie did some Scientology stuff in prison because he was bored and it was all the craze at the moment...
he kept a few phrases and ideas and repeated them later- just like all of us remember some ideas/stories we heard around the campfire growing up- or from movies we saw which impressed us and we repeat like parrots for the rest of our lives-
But he was no major part of Scientology...
Bruce- again- is more intriguing. he had separate involvements at a couple of junctures, and his history isn't as public or easy to retrace as Charlies.
After 10 years of reading everything you will ever find on Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard, and almost 8 now on The "Family"....I don't know for sure what Bruce was up to, and he may have known or spent more time with Scientologists than the others, but there was no real connection between the Family and the
"Church" of Scientology...
It is another glossy add on that people like to make tying two very bizarre groups of people together who had a few intersections in their past....
like the Mafia and Roy Radin stuff that Schreck Book throws into the mix....
or like Terry adds the Process...
or like Sanders adds all the Satanism and underground sex tape stuff...
I still say two things:
1.- why need to add anything to this case? isn't it freaky enough for you as is??
2.- Scientology is the most amazing and well kept secret in the world. despite the fact that with the internet it has become more well known in the last ten years...
It is impossible to believe that they literally own whole towns here in Florida and have cameras set up all over the intersections and streets. The founders wife and aids were all arrested for infiltrating the IRS and literally placing people in the IRS office to work and copy files on themselves. They routinely separate families and work children and treat them as adults from the time they can walk. They have set up elaborate frauds and had journalists arrested who report on them, and they have millions and millions of dollars in cash hidden all over the world. they have many key people involved who are in key positions in government and media, and they are serious business.... Many children are born into it and they never have any means of personal identification and only receive Scientology educations and are allowed little to no contact with there families, so for many of them- there really is never any realistic option to get out.
But 90% of America is unaware this is going on right here in our country...
Operation Clambake and Ex Scientology kids are two websites where you can read the truth and literally thousands of first hand accounts of life inside the church...
It is the scariest shit I have ever seen and it consumed 10 years of my life...
One 35 year old ex con and a few tripped out teenagers are no match for these people-
It isnt even the same kind of Evil...
If you ask me
Last thing to add please...
I read Bugs book back in the 80's and went to visit some of the sites as I lived in SoCal at the time, but it wasn't until the last 8 years I really got into it again and started reading all the stuff and watching all the movies and videos in depth..
I was studying Scientology and looking for a Zodiac connection when it brought me eventually to the Manson family stuff...
I literally started my Manson research and studies looking to see if it was connected to either or both-
I never found anything firm/solid then or since.
but it is all such really fascinating reading for me and some-
and, unfortunately, it makes for some great story telling for others...
alright last last word lol-please
I am not part of a disinformation campaign- I promise :)
I have read all of the stuff on this site and much much more...
I know Charlie visited the Celebrity center- and have read about the E-meter being in the leftover junk at the ranch etc... all these other things which - I guess- are supposed to mean something...
But Scientology at the time was the " it" thing- people were doing auditing around the country in their living rooms and at parties. just like any other really big fad- everyone was trying it or talking about this huge new sensation. Unless you were living under a rock ( which the family only did part of the time)you probably heard of it, or someone you know told you about trying it... We know the family loved to role play and play games- it sounds like it was a perfect fit to pass away some of those stoned nights...
but to make the connection any deeper than that between the two groups, for me, has been just as tough to prove or figure than the TLB motive...
I would love to see something which can tantalize my imagination though- so lets see....
lest anyone think I am overstating this- please watch this recruiting video and watch Tom Cruise tell potential Scientologists when they pass a car wreck that they can help,and that only they can help...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBZ_uAbxS0
notice the dark undertones- the dark colors and backdrop...
If when you read enough about it- you will realize that L.Ron Hubbard was a satanist and once even refereed to Aleister Crowley in a speech as a good friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3yfsbi4L70
On the webistes you can compare and see how similar the Scientology number and symbol system is to Crowleys... there are many many of the same ideas and theories and it is all out there on the internet for those of you who are so inclined and interested... in fact Hubbard once was working with Jack Parsons doing Sex majik and trying to impregnate some woman with the beast... Parsons had sex with her while Hubbard watched and did incantations.
I am not making this shit up....
L. Ron Hubbard had written policy stating the goal of the Church is to recruit policy makers and those of influence and political power...
Tom Cruise is old news lol
how about this????
Greta Van Susteren- she is not only on TV every night- she and her husband are lawyers who are not only devout, money donating members of, but attorneys for the Church of Scientology....
more worrisome than Greta with a national forum is her husband...
he is a major player in the Republican Party, and was Sarah Palins top adviser during her run for VP...
Hmmm a devout Scientologist is in the direct ear of the person who was very close to being the number two person in our system of government. When you really understand who these people are you will come to my conclusion:
Now thats scary!!!
when one examines Hubbard's private letters and papers which were revealed in the Church of Scientology vs. Armstrong trial, and compares the teachings of Scientology with those of the infamous occultist Aleister Crowley, the connection is inescapable (Ibid.).
Hubbard was clearly involved in the occult. In 1945, L. Ron Hubbard met Jack Parsons, who was a renowned scientist, protégé of occultist Aleister Crowley, and a member of the notorious Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.), an international organization founded by Crowley to practice sexual black magic.
Parsons had Hubbard move onto the property of Parsons' Pasadena, California, home. It was there that Hubbard began to practice the occult and sexual magic. Parsons' mistress, Sara Northrup, left him for Hubbard and later became Hubbard's second wife, even before Hubbard had divorced his first wife (The Los Angeles Times, June 24, 1990, p. A37).
Biographer Russell Miller wrote, "Parsons considered that Ron had great magical potential and took the risk of breaking his solemn oath of secrecy to acquaint Ron with some of the O.T.O. rituals.... Parsons wrote to his 'Most Beloved Father' (his term for Aleister Crowley) to acquaint him with events: 'About three months ago I met Captain L. Ron Hubbard.... Although he has no formal training in Magick, he has an extraordinary amount of experience and understanding in the field. From some of his experiences I deduced that he is in direct touch with some higher intelligence, possibly his Guardian Angel. He describes his Angel as a beautiful winged woman with red hair whom he calls the Empress and who has guided him through his life and saved him many times. He is the most Thelemic [self-willed, independent] person I have ever met and is in complete accord with our own principles'" (Russell Miller, Bare-Faced Messiah: the True Story of L. Ron Hubbard, 1987, pp. 117-8, emphasis added).
"Parsons wanted to attempt an experiment in black magic that would push back the frontiers of the occult world. With the assistance of his new friend, he intended to try and create a 'moonchild' - the magical child 'mightier than all the kings of the earth,' whose birth had been prophesied in The Book of the Law more than forty years earlier" (Ibid., p. 119).
Ok- sorry- I promise I really am done now.This stuff is close to the heart for me- and don't get a chance to talk about it often...
Sorry :)
And keep going St. and you'll get to what Maury Terry gets to and that is the Manson Murders and the Stanford Church Arlis Perry murder and the Son of Sam Murders and the Roy Radin Cottonclub murder are all related to a cult which bgean with the process and has OTO and Scientology connections as well.
Ah, but only if it were true.
Or is it?
In Sanders' book he mentions a Family member who went to London to spread the word of St. Chuck, and was also involved with Scientology there... but they threw him out because of his drug use. Can't really remember- was this Bruce? Maybe that's where he received his mind-control probe... oo-ee-oo!
I also think that the Process Church were still operating in both London, LA and SF at this time... they also had their roots in Scientology, and it's not inconceivable to think that Manson or other Family members were aware of them. Maybe Bruce was a triple agent, three cults for the price of one!
(I don't buy Sanders' balony that the Process (or Scientologists) were secretly directing his or anyone else's actions though.. the Process seem pretty harmless from what I can tell, and Scientologists look like they can do plenty harm as it is without founding hippy death cults)
ST Patty loves your knowledgeableness on the Scientology stuff. sorry if knowledgeableness is not a word but it is certainly meant as a complement.
Patty,
You can make up all the words you want. Don't worry about the word police.
St. You peaked my interest to read more on Scientology Never heard about L.R.H,S connection to Crowley nice work
so st. what have you dug up about the process? i know the manson parts, so did you dig up anything else.
also concerning van susteren's husband and palen, well one would think a good christian like sarah claims to be that she would be horrified by this guy being a scientologist and want nothing to do with him. palen tries to pray the gay away but maybe she should be prayin the scientologist away. also was van susteren born in the cult or did she convert?
Thanks to all- I was sure I spouted too much :)
without a long lecture on the Process- it was formed by a rich British guy and an Ex dancer who he married. They met in Scientology and then left and started there own group. they moved from Europe and went to a Mexico for awhile where a storm almost took them all out. then they went to California and spread out there just about the time Charlie, the summer of love and everything else of that nature started happening....
They were never more than a few hundred people and eventually they divorced and he went to NY and became a banker and she went on to another member of the group and they started an animal shelter in utah...
I dont want to waste Liz's space with a long post on the process- it is easy enough to google and read all your hear desires- but Bugs lays out all the details of the similarities between there beliefs and what Charlie preached,
but again remember....
it was an off-shoot of Scientology, so some of the stuff was going to be similar to things we know Charlie had heard....
I have found not one single shred to tie Charlie to this group- but it doesn't mean they didn't meet at some point. anything is possible. But for Charlie to have spent any real time with them and made any lasting relationships is highly highly unlikely to me..
Now for anyone who really is interested a few quick Scientology/satanism clues...
p.s.- not sure when great first got involved but here is what Rupert Murdoch ( her boss) thinks...
Rupert Murdoch, News Corp. chief executive, has twitted on his views of evil. While various people of late have been citing Murdock with the same criticism after the eavesdropping scandal, Murdoch was moved to discuss evil with regard to recent complaints by Katie Holmes that she is being followed by what her friends call “Scientology goons” — reportedly raised fears that the Church might try to snatch the child of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes. Murdoch responded with “Scientology back in news. Very weird cult, but big, big money involved with Tom Cruise either number two or three in [hierarchy].” That must make work a bit awkward since Greta Van Susteren, one of his leading hosts, has been a prominent member of Scientology for decades. Her show “On The Record” airs every weekday.
Murdoch wrote “Watch Katie Holmes and Scientology story develop. Something creepy, maybe even evil, about these people.”
He later stood his ground and referred to Scientology’s reputation for harassment: “Since Scientology tweet hundreds of attacks. Expect they will increase and get worse and maybe threatening. Still stick to my story.” However, when pressed on his view of Mormonism, he said “Mormonism a mystery to me, but Mormons certainly not evil.”
L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. speaks on his father
(From an interview with L Ron Hubbard Jr.)
Ron Jr. says that he remembers much of his childhood. He claims to recall, at six years, a vivid scene of his father performing an abortion ritual on his mother with a coat hanger.
Ron Hubbard Jr. remembers that when he was ten years old, his father, in an attempt to get his son in tune with his black magic worship, laced the young Hubbard's bubble gum with Phenobarbital. According to Ron Jr. drugs were an important part of Ron Jr.'s growing up, as his father believed that they were the best way to get closer to Satan--the Antichrist of black magic.
"In my father's private circle," Ron Jr. explains, "there were lots of mistresses. When I was younger, I participated in private orgies with him and three or four other women. His theory was that one has to open or crack a woman's soul in order for the satanic power to pour through it and into him. It got kind of far out, culminating in a variety of sex acts. Dad also had an incredibly violent temper. He was into S & M and would beat his mistresses and shoot them full of drugs."
When asked by a interviewer how this "soul-cracking" worked, L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. said, "The explanation is sort of long and complicated. The basic rationale is that there are some powers in this universe that are pretty strong.
"As an example, Hitler was involved in the same black magic and the same occult practices that my father was. The identical ones. Which, as I have said, stem clear back to before Egyptian times. It's a very secret thing. Very powerful and very workable and very dangerous.
Brainwashing is nothing compared to it. The proper term would be "soul cracking."
The following is from a piece, written by L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. about his father in 1985 entitled "Philadelphia."
"We were in Philadelphia. It was November 1952. Dianetics was all but forgotten; Scientology, a new science,' had become the focus of attention. Every night, in the hotel, in preparation for the next day's lecture, he'd pace the floor, exhilarated by this or that passage from Aleister Crowley's writings. Just a month before, he had been in London, where he had finally been able to quench his thirst; to fill his cup with the true, raw, naked power of magic. The lust of centuries at his very fingertips.
"To stroke and taste the environs of the Great Beast, to fondle Crowley's books, papers, and memorabilia had filled him with pure ecstasy! In London he had acquired, at last, the final keys; enabling him to take his place upon the Throne of the Beast,' to which he firmly believed himself to be the rightful heir. The tech gushed forth and resulted in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures."
It is perhaps coincidental that Hubbard, in the late fifties, set up his headquarters at Saint Hill Manor in England, less than half an hour's drive from what had been Aleister Crowley's former house in Tunbridge Wells.
Aleister Crowley's ideology and Scientology's ideology: a comparison
There are many similarities between Crowley's writings and the teachings of Hubbard. To name but a few of the most benign: there is the Dianetics' Time Track, in which every incident in a person's life is chronologically recorded in full, in the mind. This is quite similar to Crowley's Magical Memory. The Magical Memory is developed over time until "memories of childhood reawaken" which were previously forgotten, and memories of previous incarnations are recalled as well.
Hubbard gives examples in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course of several people remembering lives earlier on earth, some up to a million years ago. The similarity between the Magical Memory and Time Track is that they both can recall every past incident in a person's life, they both can recall incidents from past lives, and they both must be developed by certain techniques in order to make use of them.
Both Hubbard and Crowley consider it important to have the person recall his or her birth. "Having allowed the mind to return for some hundred times to the hour of birth, it should be encouraged to endeavor to penetrate beyond that period" {Crowley). "After twenty runs through birth, the patient experienced a recession of all somatics and 'unconsciousness' and aberrative content." "Thus there was no inhibition about looking earlier than birth for what Dianetics had begun to call basic-basic" (Hubbard).
In 1952, Hubbard recommended a work by black magician Aleister Crowley, which Hubbard called The Master Therion (published in 1929). This book was reprinted as Magick in Theory and Practice, and it also contains reference to the recollection of birth: "Having allowed the mind to return for some hundred times to the hour of birth, it should be encouraged to endeavor to penetrate beyond that period. If it be properly trained to run backwards, there will be little difficulty in doing this."
Both Hubbard and Crowley are avowedly anti-psychiatry. "Official psychoanalysis is therefore committed to upholding a fraud... psychoanalysts have misinterpreted life, and announced the absurdity that every human being is essentially an antisocial, criminal, and insane animal" (Crowley). Hubbard considered that psychiatry controlled most of society and was struggling to create a 1984 world.
Hubbard and Crowley both posit the ability of the person to leave his or her body at times. Crowley states that the way to learn to leave your body is to mock up a body like your own in front of your physical body. Eventually you will learn to leave your physical body with your "astral body" and travel and view at will without physical restrictions. Hubbard teaches the same, and his method of "exteriorization" is to tell the person to "have preclear mock up own body" which will send the person outside his body.
oth Crowley and Hubbard use an equilateral triangle pointing up in a circle as one of their group's symbols. Both use Volume 0 instead of Volume 1 to begin enumerating their works.
Crowley's notion of "the will": "The original definition of Scientology 8-8008 was the attainment of infinity by the reduction of the apparent infinity and power of the MEST [Matter, Energy, Space, Time] universe to a zero for himself, and the increase of the apparent zero of one's own universe to an infinity for oneself ... It can be seen that [the] infinity [symbol] stood upright makes the number eight" . Which is to say, the essential idea of Scientology is to raise the power of the individual's will or intention to "an infinity". This aim is held in common with all magical systems (Cavendish quotes Crowley "the Great Work is the raising of the whole man in perfect balance to the power of Infinity", The Magical Arts, p.5). The exercises used in the attempt to achieve this - especially those in The Creation of Human Ability (some of which were on the original "OT 5" course) - are ritual magic disguised as therapy.
Adopting the same stated purpose for Scientology as Crowley had for his Magic, Hubbard says, in a 1952 taped Scientology lecture: "Our whole activity tends to make an individual completely independent of any limitation."
In Crowley's Organization are several grade levels. To reach the Grade of Adeptus Exemptus "The Adept must prepare and publish a thesis setting forth His knowledge of the Universe, and his proposals for its welfare and progress. He will thus be known as the leader of a school of thought." It is apparent that Hubbard has fulfilled this requirement.
The "creative processing" of Hubbard's 1952 Philadelphia Doctorate Course derives substantially from the work of black magician Aleister Crowley. One could go on for quite some time listing the similarities between Crowley's and Hubbard's theories and writings, but for additional information the reader is encouraged to investigate for him or herself.
Scientology's symbols and the Satanic
The "S and double triangle" motif of Scientology's main symbol probably derives from the black magic use of the snake symbol (the "wise serpent" or Satan) combined with a deconstruction into two triangles of the Star of David (rather like the reverse ritual of hanging the Christian cross upside down to signify devil worship). This symbol - the magical hexagram - was used by Hubbard and Parsons during their attempts at incarnating the Antichrist in human form.
The RTC (a main Scientology corporation) symbol contains the Dianetics triangle, which is a common magical symbol, representing the door of the Cabala, the letter Daleth. Hubbard indeed assigned it to the Greek equivalent of Daleth, Delta. The triangle on its base is also the symbol of Set, the Egyptian god called by some "the destroyer of man", the male equivalent of Babalon. Indeed Crowley equates Set with Satan. Hubbard also used the "Daleth" triangle of the Egyptian destroyer-god Set as the Dianetic symbol.
Hubbard copied the back of Crowley's Tarot-cards, a distinctively marked cross, which he used for his main Scientology church cross and symbol.
The Sea Organization symbol of Scientology's elite paramilitary division is also interesting. The five pointed star, or pentacle is the most commonly known symbol of magical power. It is held between two thirteen-leaved laurels.
The theta symbol used by Scientology is the central symbol of Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis, where it denotes "Thelma" or the will. Perhaps Hubbard's "thetan" is pronounced to match with a lisped "Satan"? He was, after all, wry in his humor and such a subtle perverse twist and deceit of lower initiates would be entirely congruent with classical Satanism.
Crowley's order - the OTO - had a common origin with the Thule group to which several members of the Nazi hierarchy belonged (including deputy party chairman Rudolph Hess). The sig rune used by the Nazis - appears on the Scientology International Management Organization's symbol - a red square enclosing a white disc and set off by four lightning flashes or sig runes. The swastika of the Nazi flag has been replaced by the Scientology "S and double triangle". The symbol of the Religious Technology Center is surrounded by sig runes. The sig rune is otherwise peculiar to the Nazis.
L. Ron, junior, was sure that the teachings of the pre-Nazi Germanen Orden and the Thule secret societies had passed directly to his father by courier. No explanation is given for using these sig runes by Scientology. At the time that both of these symbols were introduced, Hubbard also created the International Finance Police, headed by the International Finance Dictator. An significant choice of words.
Hubbard's words and Crowley's religious ideology
One can tell a lot about what type of religion an organization is by looking at the spiritual qualities of the religion's founders, their words, and the organization's key leaders. Wherever possible this story will quote from the policy and spiritual directives of Scientology's founder L. Ron Hubbard...
While Hubbard was supposedly researching his Dianetics in the late 1940s, he was in fact engaging in magical rituals, and trying out hypnosis both on himself and others. During the 1984 Armstrong trial against Scientology, extracts from Hubbard's voluminous self-hypnotic affirmations were read into the record. The statements, hundreds of pages of them, are written in red ink and Hubbard frequently drew pictures of the male genitalia alongside the text.
Amongst his affirmations to himself we find" "Men are my slaves", "Elemental Spirits are my slaves" and "You can be merciless whenever your will is crossed and you have every right to be merciless" "All women shall succumb to my charms! All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why."
L. Ron Hubbard repeatedly played them back to himself while under the influence of hallucinatory drugs such as mescaline and cocaine. Was Hubbard's evil intention to secretly subjugate no less than all of mankind?
In 1938 in a letter to the first of Hubbard's three wives he said, "I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take legendary form..."
More from the sacred scriptures of Hubbard. "THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."
"If you really want to enslave people tell them that you are going to give them total freedom." (At the top of the Scientology grade chart of levels of initiate attainment at the OT 8 level is the benefit obtained from that level. At OT 8 it is written "Total Freedom.")
Of practitioners unlicensed by him Hubbard said "Harass these persons in any possible way." Nor did Hubbard exclude the possibility of murder against those who opposed him. The "Suppressive Person declare" and the "Fair Game Law" speak reams in terms of Hubbard's true intent and spiritual nature.
"An enemy may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist...may be tricked, sued, lied to, or destroyed." From the words of L. Ron Hubbard in HCO policy letter of 18 October 1967, known as the "Fair Game Policy."
"A suppressive person becomes fair game. By fair game is meant may not be further protected by the codes and disciplines of Scientology...They cannot be granted the rights and beingness ordinarily accorded rational beings and so place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings or well being...The homes, property, places, abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology are all beyond the protection of Scientology ethics."
More from the mouth of L Ron Hubbard: "When you move off a point of power, pay all your obligations on the nail, empower your friends completely and move off with your pockets full of artillery, potential blackmail on every erstwhile rival, unlimited funds in your private account and the addresses of experienced assassins and go live in Bulgaria and bribe the police ....
"So to live at all in the shadow or employ of a power you must yourself gather and USE enough power to hold your own-without just nattering to the power to kill Pete', in straightforward or more suppressive veiled ways to him as these wreck the power that supports yours. He doesn't have to know all the bad news and if he's a power really he won't ask all the time, What are all those dead bodies doing at the door?' And if you are clever, you never let it be thought HE killed them-that weakens you and also hurts the power source. Well, boss, about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me.'
" Well,' he'll say if he really is a poor, why are you bothering me with it if its done and you did it. Where's my blue ink?' Or, Skipper three shore patrolmen will be along soon with your cook, Dober, and they'll want to tell you he beat up Simson.' Who's Simson?' He's a clerk in the office enemy downtown.'
" Good, when they've done it, take Dober down to the dispensary for any treatment he needs. Oh yes. Raise his pay.'....
"...we all aren't on the stage with our names in lights, always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power, or more ease, or a snarling defense of the power to a critic, or even the dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark, or the glorious blaze of the whole enemy camp as a birthday surprise .... Real powers are developed by tight conspiracies of this kind pushing someone up in whose leadership they have faith." (From the policy directive "The Responsibilities of Leaders" by L. Ron Hubbard.)
Hubbard on compassion and ethics, "This universe is a rough universe. Its a deadly serious universe. Only the strong survive. Only the ruthless can own it." (From The History of Man by L Ron Hubbard, p.38.) "Only a barbarian minister is a man of God." "The purpose of ethics is to remove counter-intentions from the environment." (HCO policy letter of June 18, 1968.)
In Booklet of the Scientology Professional Auditors Course (1982), states. "A very effective thought control technique could be worked out from Scientology which could be used to make individuals into WILLING slaves." (emphasis added)
So there is some stuff to think about lol
This information and much more can be read here....
http://www.factnet.org/satanic-elements-scientology
This is by Hubbard's great grandson. I thought people might find it interesting.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ciupsqkLLkQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DciupsqkLLkQ
Post a Comment