Judging by the backgrounds of some of the images of him that have appeared on this site, he seems to enjoy a fair amount of international traveling for a convicted murderer. I guess his past isn't an issue since he's legally changed his name? I've definitely heard of people being denied entry into the US, European countries and elsewhere for having having far lesser convictions in their home countries.
specifically referring to this image: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Nn360LeHW1k/T3xHabTrr5I/AAAAAAAAA44/YfQAZwAuomY/s1600/clem6.jpg & this one: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--7Q-re88F4Q/UURnxxe06jI/AAAAAAAAFAk/yT98VT70H9U/s1600/wefwe.jpg
he looks great..glad to see him enjoying life ...looks like he's in a band?..maybe?..anyone know the name?..or maybe just jams with friends?..it would be great if he had some recent music recorded?..free l.v.h 2013
I have a friend in a band who was denied entry to Canada because of a past DUI.
Still, Clem has to make a living somehow. Bands have to travel in order to work. Otherwise people would be bitching and moaning about him living off of the government or trying to cash in on the case by writing a book.
I don't really have a problem with him making a living making music or doing anything else, provided he's adhering to the terms of his parole and not harming anyone or otherwise engaging in questionable behavior. It's preferable to the alternative of wandering aimlessly and/or getting into more trouble. I just find it a tad curious that someone with his criminal past would be able to travel unobstructed to other countries. I am not under the impression that changing one's name erases a person's record of criminal convictions, particularly those for serious violent felonies, in the eyes of the law. Maybe someone with some more knowledge can comment and clarify? (As an aside, I am an American living in the UK and I was once erroneously detained on arrival at an airport in London and was almost sent back to the US before they corrected their mistake. I don't have so much as a traffic citation in any country, much less any criminal convictions, so Grogan's situation has piqued my interest.)
Leigh I wonder if Grogan has gotten permission from his parole officer to leave the country assuming he is still on parole. He might not be, you know. It's been many years since he was released from prison and I don't know that he has had any charges filed against him since then.
Remember when Charlie was fresh out of prison in 1967 he was able to leave the state to look for work as a musician. He was granted all kinds of leeway with his parole, no 9 to 5 job, no fixed address, spotty check-ins with his parole officer etc. Not to mention the numerous arrests he had between '67 and '69. Teflon Charlie!
Since Grogan is an established musician he just might be afforded the privilege of travel now.
Deb - His parole officer may have OK'd the international travel (assuming he still has to get permission all these years after being paroled), but that has no bearing on whether or not a foreign country would allow him entry. The UK, for example, isn't keen on letting foreign felons into the country who may go on to commit crimes here. Most countries have similar views/policies on letting in such 'undesirables', even for tourist purposes. Snoop Dogg was denied entry into the UK a few years ago due to his criminal convictions (he's been tried for murder but never convicted, though he has convictions for other things).
I've never heard of parole lasting more than a few years. Squeaky was In prison 34 years and has been of parole now for a year or two and has all the rights you and I do.
Matt: "I've never heard of parole lasting more than a few years. Squeaky was In prison 34 years and has been of parole now for a year or two and has all the rights you and I do."
I think you're right about that. (Though is she able to vote?)
Grogan is probably able to live a relatively free and unrestricted life in the US, and so he should since he's stayed out of trouble all these years and his parole was a done deal a long time ago. I don't even personally object to the fact that he's traveled abroad. Lots of people have mistakes in their past - though rarely as severe and egregious as his - and if they are deemed to have paid their debt to society and have long since ceased any illegal activities, then great. I just found it a bit peculiar that he doesn't seem to have been subject to the same hindrances that many others find themselves subject to when their convictions aren't nearly as serious as his. Hardly seems fair and I wonder what's behind it or if the authorities of these countries were even aware when they allowed him entry what he had done. If they weren't aware, why not? And if they were aware and let him in any way, why him but not, say, Daniel's friend with a DUI in his past? Seems a bit arbitrary. But then, so is life I guess.
Snoop Dogg seems to live off of being a celebrity more than as a musician. Grogan seems to want to avoid being known as anyone other than a member of a band.
I found this page to try and answer some of my own questions. Looks like it's different everywhere anyway. My guess is that his conviction, though severe, isn't such a big deal to these places because of the length of time that has elapsed since it was committed and his good behavior since then. (Can't really say the same about Snoop Dogg, lol.)
Leigh if parole/probation has expired all of your rights as a citizen are restored. It is possible that the gentleman denied entry to Canada had not expired the proper time.
My belief is that he did what was required by the court to do penalty-wise and assumed it was done with. The music business is strange and I don't think he anticipated having to go to across borders. If memory serves, they got the show moved to Buffalo, NY.
stoner While Matt's modesty is heartwarming, you can post the url of the first foto into Google images and get the name of the band, some of their music and the uncensored picture no problem.
matt etc If you guys are the National Enquirer Blog then seize it. Half measures are pointless. "Here's Clem/Adam and he's on an international tour, one that Shorty Shea never got to make". Like that!
The music is easy to find, really. The music is pretty good too. ---------------------------------- Somewhere, on Youtube, I saw a video of Clem jamming onstage with Bob Weir of the Grateful Dead. Man, that must've be the pinnacle of his career. I'm glad he's living a good life. He would've been one of the last family members that I would've guessed to be doing well and staying out of trouble. Good for you Steve.
There was an East coast punk band in the early 90s who claimed their guitarist was "Ex-Manson Family member" Clem Grogan. I remember looking them up and the guitarist was too young to be him. Anyone remember the name of that band. Grogan still jams with some really good musicians. He also dabbled in a music school as well. There's a song up on a site somwhere where Grogan played guitar for the music school "band" covering the band "The Spiral Staircase." Interesting choice!
Been trying to find a recent picture of Clem where I could actually see remnants of a scar or X on his forehead. Can anyone point to a picture where that can be seen? Btw, I would love to read a book written by Clem reflecting on his "reckless youth" with the Family. Don't suppose that will be written anytime soon.
I was just kidding about the "X." And I wouldn't hold my breath for a book, as he's probably making decent money as a touring musician and obvs wants to be very very off the radar. Now why haven't Linda or Gypsy written a book (or finished a book in the case of the latter) who knows. My guess is only b/c there's no money in writing book anymore.
YYou people are so foolish your talking bad about something that you haven't the faintest idea about. There's way more too everything than you could even fathom. no one from the ranch that is in the know ( not everyone there was in the know )is talking, nor is the Hollywood circle talking *much*. You've been sold a load of garbage, there are a few other groups that are in the know but besides that the rest of you have no clue what clem, tex, Charlie etc were involved with and you probably never will. Theres a reason doris tates mother didn't blame Charles manson, and theres a reason he was offered only 18 months if he talked, and theres a reason clem is on the streets. theres way more to this story, to bad most of you are to stupid. keep sitting on your butt watching a television !
Jameel Rawls said... Theres a reason doris tates mother didn't blame Charles manson,
I did not know Doris Tate's mother was involved in anything, did anyone else?? I assume Jameel you mean Sharon Tate's mother not Doris Tate's mother????
And if you do mean Doris Tate-I have never seen in all these years one article or interview where Doris does not blame Charlie.
I fucking love when people come on here and think they know wtf is what and then want to argue over it. "Doris Tate's mother" LMAO But it does make for good entertainment.
Its like this 99% of the people looking into this subject matter are of the mindset of the general public. They've been given a language , a mental philosophy , a religion , a fashion and trend, sports etc they cannot create they have no real originality there slaves. So when someone comes along who isn't a idiot that watches a basketball bounce on a television and instead wants to know the real facts and truth and studies then that person will become a enemy to the 99%. For a lot of years I spent all my time trying to make people aware of this subject and other subjects of the 60s and 70s that I knew the facts weren't present , but now I'm glad people don't know because it reminds me of how special it is to have the desire to want to know. Besides I don't think it'll do anyone any good to know now maybe many years ago it could of made a difference but not anymore. Just keep watching football and going along with whatever they give ya. Everyone else who says anything different is just a nut , you know it right don't listen to anything else. Good luck
Jamie I truly would like to break it down to you but you see it goes like this 99% of the people coming into contact with this information do not have a sturdy enough foundation to hold the real knowledge on this subject matter. They like very very easy simple answers, your talking about people who spend the majority of there time watching a basketball bounce on a television screen. They don't even know who there local mayor is right now let alone what elements they would have to be faimilar with to grasp what happen 40 something years ago. There the general public and all they know is what has been meant for them there whole life. They have been given a language to speak , a religion to follow , a mental philosophy on life , they've been given there fashions , sports, trends, even if there in rebellion they've been given how they can and should rebel. There a total joke with no hope of anything. So people who really are in the know don't discuss anything with these retards its just not worth it. If you are for real and do want to know you'll need to prove that to yourself and the people who have the knowledge. Just keep studying and making yourself available and eventually and hopefully your for real and than it'll be revealed. All of this is connected Manson, Zodiac, Zebra murders, jonestown , Kennedy etc but the bad part is 99% of the people researching are retards.
Judging by the backgrounds of some of the images of him that have appeared on this site, he seems to enjoy a fair amount of international traveling for a convicted murderer. I guess his past isn't an issue since he's legally changed his name? I've definitely heard of people being denied entry into the US, European countries and elsewhere for having having far lesser convictions in their home countries.
ReplyDeletespecifically referring to this image: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Nn360LeHW1k/T3xHabTrr5I/AAAAAAAAA44/YfQAZwAuomY/s1600/clem6.jpg & this one: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--7Q-re88F4Q/UURnxxe06jI/AAAAAAAAFAk/yT98VT70H9U/s1600/wefwe.jpg
ReplyDeleteLeigh, I believe 3 of the 4 pics in this post were taken in Switzerland.
ReplyDeleteWhat is he wearing, a duster?
ReplyDeleteWonder if he still has those horrible caveman teeth like he did in the Hendrickson movie.
ReplyDeletehe looks great..glad to see him enjoying life ...looks like he's in a band?..maybe?..anyone know the name?..or maybe just jams with friends?..it would be great if he had some recent music recorded?..free l.v.h 2013
ReplyDeleteHi Stoner. We won't post the name of his band. That's a little too much personal info. Suffice it to say he's doing great.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend in a band who was denied entry to Canada because of a past DUI.
ReplyDeleteStill, Clem has to make a living somehow. Bands have to travel in order to work. Otherwise people would be bitching and moaning about him living off of the government or trying to cash in on the case by writing a book.
I don't really have a problem with him making a living making music or doing anything else, provided he's adhering to the terms of his parole and not harming anyone or otherwise engaging in questionable behavior. It's preferable to the alternative of wandering aimlessly and/or getting into more trouble. I just find it a tad curious that someone with his criminal past would be able to travel unobstructed to other countries. I am not under the impression that changing one's name erases a person's record of criminal convictions, particularly those for serious violent felonies, in the eyes of the law. Maybe someone with some more knowledge can comment and clarify? (As an aside, I am an American living in the UK and I was once erroneously detained on arrival at an airport in London and was almost sent back to the US before they corrected their mistake. I don't have so much as a traffic citation in any country, much less any criminal convictions, so Grogan's situation has piqued my interest.)
ReplyDeleteLeigh I wonder if Grogan has gotten permission from his parole officer to leave the country assuming he is still on parole. He might not be, you know. It's been many years since he was released from prison and I don't know that he has had any charges filed against him since then.
ReplyDeleteRemember when Charlie was fresh out of prison in 1967 he was able to leave the state to look for work as a musician. He was granted all kinds of leeway with his parole, no 9 to 5 job, no fixed address, spotty check-ins with his parole officer etc. Not to mention the numerous arrests he had between '67 and '69. Teflon Charlie!
Since Grogan is an established musician he just might be afforded the privilege of travel now.
Deb - His parole officer may have OK'd the international travel (assuming he still has to get permission all these years after being paroled), but that has no bearing on whether or not a foreign country would allow him entry. The UK, for example, isn't keen on letting foreign felons into the country who may go on to commit crimes here. Most countries have similar views/policies on letting in such 'undesirables', even for tourist purposes. Snoop Dogg was denied entry into the UK a few years ago due to his criminal convictions (he's been tried for murder but never convicted, though he has convictions for other things).
ReplyDeleteI've never heard of parole lasting more than a few years. Squeaky was In prison 34 years and has been of parole now for a year or two and has all the rights you and I do.
ReplyDeleteI have always wondered if ex family members ever catch themselves singing their old songs, such as "Always is always forever?"
ReplyDeleteMatt: "I've never heard of parole lasting more than a few years. Squeaky was In prison 34 years and has been of parole now for a year or two and has all the rights you and I do."
ReplyDeleteI think you're right about that. (Though is she able to vote?)
Grogan is probably able to live a relatively free and unrestricted life in the US, and so he should since he's stayed out of trouble all these years and his parole was a done deal a long time ago. I don't even personally object to the fact that he's traveled abroad. Lots of people have mistakes in their past - though rarely as severe and egregious as his - and if they are deemed to have paid their debt to society and have long since ceased any illegal activities, then great. I just found it a bit peculiar that he doesn't seem to have been subject to the same hindrances that many others find themselves subject to when their convictions aren't nearly as serious as his. Hardly seems fair and I wonder what's behind it or if the authorities of these countries were even aware when they allowed him entry what he had done. If they weren't aware, why not? And if they were aware and let him in any way, why him but not, say, Daniel's friend with a DUI in his past? Seems a bit arbitrary. But then, so is life I guess.
Snoop Dogg seems to live off of being a celebrity more than as a musician. Grogan seems to want to avoid being known as anyone other than a member of a band.
ReplyDeleteI found this page to try and answer some of my own questions. Looks like it's different everywhere anyway. My guess is that his conviction, though severe, isn't such a big deal to these places because of the length of time that has elapsed since it was committed and his good behavior since then. (Can't really say the same about Snoop Dogg, lol.)
ReplyDeletehttp://wikitravel.org/en/Traveling_with_a_criminal_history
I gotta say that I love this blog for the simple reason that we have actual discussions about things.
ReplyDeleteLeigh if parole/probation has expired all of your rights as a citizen are restored. It is possible that the gentleman denied entry to Canada had not expired the proper time.
ReplyDeleteMy belief is that he did what was required by the court to do penalty-wise and assumed it was done with. The music business is strange and I don't think he anticipated having to go to across borders. If memory serves, they got the show moved to Buffalo, NY.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletewonder if hes still in contact with bobby or bruce.
ReplyDeleteCanada denies entry to any individual who has had 2 dui's regardless of how many years have past.
ReplyDeletestoner
ReplyDeleteWhile Matt's modesty is heartwarming, you can post the url of the first foto into Google images and get the name of the band, some of their music and the uncensored picture no problem.
matt etc
If you guys are the National Enquirer Blog then seize it. Half measures are pointless. "Here's Clem/Adam and he's on an international tour, one that Shorty Shea never got to make". Like that!
The music is easy to find, really. The music is pretty good too.
ReplyDeleteOle J.C. said...
ReplyDeleteThe music is easy to find, really. The music is pretty good too.
----------------------------------
Somewhere, on Youtube, I saw a video of Clem jamming onstage with Bob Weir of the Grateful Dead. Man, that must've be the pinnacle of his career. I'm glad he's living a good life. He would've been one of the last family members that I would've guessed to be doing well and staying out of trouble. Good for you Steve.
Also, his band and he are very good.
ReplyDeleteCol, we will take your comments under advisement and summarize in a memo to the board of directors at our next quarterly meeting. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThere was an East coast punk band in the early 90s who claimed their guitarist was "Ex-Manson Family member" Clem Grogan. I remember looking them up and the guitarist was too young to be him. Anyone remember the name of that band. Grogan still jams with some really good musicians. He also dabbled in a music school as well. There's a song up on a site somwhere where Grogan played guitar for the music school "band" covering the band "The Spiral Staircase." Interesting choice!
ReplyDeleteHere it is: http://www.guitar-confidence.com/music-composition/more-today-than-yesterday-east-bay-rock-ensemble/
ReplyDeleteLet's all show up with the Family Jams album for him to sign.
ReplyDeleteDoes he still act retarded? Or was it all an act? Or maybe just an effect of being on acid all the time?
ReplyDeleteI'd go see him to investigate but I'm deathly allergic to middle-aged hippie jammy blues.
That hat hides his "X" scar BTW.
Been trying to find a recent picture of Clem where I could actually see remnants of a scar or X on his forehead. Can anyone point to a picture where that can be seen? Btw, I would love to read a book written by Clem reflecting on his "reckless youth" with the Family. Don't suppose that will be written anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteI was just kidding about the "X." And I wouldn't hold my breath for a book, as he's probably making decent money as a touring musician and obvs wants to be very very off the radar. Now why haven't Linda or Gypsy written a book (or finished a book in the case of the latter) who knows. My guess is only b/c there's no money in writing book anymore.
ReplyDeleteYYou people are so foolish your talking bad about something that you haven't the faintest idea about. There's way more too everything than you could even fathom. no one from the ranch that is in the know ( not everyone there was in the know )is talking, nor is the Hollywood circle talking *much*. You've been sold a load of garbage, there are a few other groups that are in the know but besides that the rest of you have no clue what clem, tex, Charlie etc were involved with and you probably never will. Theres a reason doris tates mother didn't blame Charles manson, and theres a reason he was offered only 18 months if he talked, and theres a reason clem is on the streets. theres way more to this story, to bad most of you are to stupid. keep sitting on your butt watching a television !
ReplyDeleteWell then, Jameel Rawls why don't you enlighten us on the rest of the story, since you are like so "in the know", n'shit?
ReplyDeleteJameel Rawls said...
ReplyDeleteTheres a reason doris tates mother didn't blame Charles manson,
I did not know Doris Tate's mother was involved in anything, did anyone else??
I assume Jameel you mean Sharon Tate's mother not Doris Tate's mother????
And if you do mean Doris Tate-I have never seen in all these years one article or interview where Doris does not blame Charlie.
I fucking love when people come on here and think they know wtf is what and then want to argue over it. "Doris Tate's mother" LMAO But it does make for good entertainment.
I too would like to know the whole story ..jamie
ReplyDeleteIts like this 99% of the people looking into this subject matter are of the mindset of the general public. They've been given a language , a mental philosophy , a religion , a fashion and trend, sports etc they cannot create they have no real originality there slaves. So when someone comes along who isn't a idiot that watches a basketball bounce on a television and instead wants to know the real facts and truth and studies then that person will become a enemy to the 99%. For a lot of years I spent all my time trying to make people aware of this subject and other subjects of the 60s and 70s that I knew the facts weren't present , but now I'm glad people don't know because it reminds me of how special it is to have the desire to want to know. Besides I don't think it'll do anyone any good to know now maybe many years ago it could of made a difference but not anymore. Just keep watching football and going along with whatever they give ya. Everyone else who says anything different is just a nut , you know it right don't listen to anything else. Good luck
DeleteJamie I truly would like to break it down to you but you see it goes like this 99% of the people coming into contact with this information do not have a sturdy enough foundation to hold the real knowledge on this subject matter. They like very very easy simple answers, your talking about people who spend the majority of there time watching a basketball bounce on a television screen. They don't even know who there local mayor is right now let alone what elements they would have to be faimilar with to grasp what happen 40 something years ago. There the general public and all they know is what has been meant for them there whole life. They have been given a language to speak , a religion to follow , a mental philosophy on life , they've been given there fashions , sports, trends, even if there in rebellion they've been given how they can and should rebel. There a total joke with no hope of anything. So people who really are in the know don't discuss anything with these retards its just not worth it. If you are for real and do want to know you'll need to prove that to yourself and the people who have the knowledge. Just keep studying and making yourself available and eventually and hopefully your for real and than it'll be revealed. All of this is connected Manson, Zodiac, Zebra murders, jonestown , Kennedy etc but the bad part is 99% of the people researching are retards.
ReplyDelete