Interesting might well could have been, the order of the rainbow is also actually a Masonic group, the fountain of the world wore nuns habits and barefeet and I belive I read the Process used color names ( may have been the FOuntain) so could be a possibility for sure-
@Farflung... Thats not tipical French, they did that in every country in Europe to women who had a German Soldier as lover in Ocupied countries during WW2, here in Holland they did, French, Belgium and so on and so on....
Speaking of the swastika on charlies head-does ANYONE really belive when he carved that into his head he did it as a sun symbol-native american -hindu symbol I mean come on-
According to IMDB the movie Female Bunch was first released in West Germany (as it then was) on 15 October 1971. Manson appeared in court with a cross incised on his forehead on 24 July 1970.
You are correct, but TFB was filmed at Spahn Ranch in 1969. Certainly the Family witnessed filming, makeup, etc. We're speculating that it may have rubbed off.
I tried last year to contact some of the folks involved with the movie but had no luck.
Good point, Matt. I actually saw this movie many years ago - not one of the best I've seen, but hey, there are worse. far worse.
Wasn't the cross in this movie branded, rather than carved? And wasn't it a Christian cross, aka 'latin cross', with the proportions we see in church, rather than a letter X?
Both Sanders and Bugliosi report Manson saying (at the trial) that he felt himself "inadequate and incompetent to speak or defend [him]self" and had therefore "X'd [him]self from [the establishment's] world".
Of course, I don't know what words he used here for the X but if he had said 'crossed' I kind of feel it would have been written that way.
There's a saying I remember from the old days, 'no buscar la quinta pata al gato'. Literal translation would be 'don't look for a fifth leg on a cat', but real meaning is don't waste time looking for something you're not going to find. Not for me to suggest that, but perhaps the possibility's there.
Manson could have been inspired by the cross branding on the forehead and put his own spin on it.
The movie sounds like it was totally opposite of Manson's views though, with the women being the aggressors and initiators. That aspect couldn't have set too well with him.
Interesting bit about filming this movie at the ranch: http://books.google.com/books?id=JJhb4abmZv4C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=Wild+Beyond+Belief:+Interviews+with+Exploitation+Filmmakers+of+the+1960s+and+1970s%22+by+Brian+Albright+manson&source=bl&ots=5a3cwxGnSL&sig=UfpLKUmUfXsdTdyUSWB3na5WLyc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-IbqUPfeMsj3iwLTsoGYAw&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=snippet&q=spahn&f=false
The quote I read (on another blog) was “…the mark on my head simulates the death head, black stamp of rejection, anti-church, falling cross, devil sign, death, terror, fear", but I have no idea where it was taken from. Fairly average claptrap, if you ask me (which you didn't!).
Nor do I know what "falling cross" might refer to. Is it perhaps the inverted cross so believed of Hollywood satanism?
I just read a book called "EASY RIDERS RAGING BULLS" 1998 it mentions that Manson wanted Dennis Hopper to star in the film version of his life. Hopper didnt want to meet Manson becaue Sebring had been a good friend-but curiosity got the best of Hopper ( Im paraphrasing) it continues that Hopper asked Manson why he cut himself, a cross on his forehead-Mansons response was "Dont you read the newspapers man, all my followers have cut themselves like this so when the black revolution comes,they'll know which ones are mine". book is by Peter Biskind
18 comments:
Interesting might well could have been, the order of the rainbow is also actually a Masonic group, the fountain of the world wore nuns habits and barefeet and I belive I read the Process used color names ( may have been the FOuntain) so could be a possibility for sure-
It wouldn't surprise me a bit if this is where he got the X-forehead idea. He borrowed ideas from everyone he encountered, it seems.
candy and nuts said... the order of the rainbow is also actually a Masonic group,
Thanks for confirming that, Candy. I thought I used to know a rainbow girl.
yw
Looks like this movie was inspired by Manson, but at the same time if it was filmed in 1969 it couldn't be. This is a pretty cool link.
I totally think the X foreheads began with this movie. I tried to contact the principals of this movie but no luck. Oh well...
I thought the ‘X’ cum Swastika, head shaving and public crawling was inspired by the French:
Forehead Swastika
Coincidence?
@Farflung... Thats not tipical French, they did that in every country in Europe to women who had a German Soldier as lover in Ocupied countries during WW2, here in Holland they did, French, Belgium and so on and so on....
Farf, that video is pretty disturbing. I'm never surprised anymore by man's inhumanity to man, but I'm frequently disturbed.
Speaking of the swastika on charlies head-does ANYONE really belive when he carved that into his head he did it as a sun symbol-native american -hindu symbol I mean come on-
Matt
According to IMDB the movie Female Bunch was first released in West Germany (as it then was) on 15 October 1971. Manson appeared in court with a cross incised on his forehead on 24 July 1970.
FrankM
Hey Frank! Where have you been?
You are correct, but TFB was filmed at Spahn Ranch in 1969. Certainly the Family witnessed filming, makeup, etc. We're speculating that it may have rubbed off.
I tried last year to contact some of the folks involved with the movie but had no luck.
Good point, Matt. I actually saw this movie many years ago - not one of the best I've seen, but hey, there are worse. far worse.
Wasn't the cross in this movie branded, rather than carved? And wasn't it a Christian cross, aka 'latin cross', with the proportions we see in church, rather than a letter X?
Both Sanders and Bugliosi report Manson saying (at the trial) that he felt himself "inadequate and incompetent to speak or defend [him]self" and had therefore "X'd [him]self from [the establishment's] world".
Of course, I don't know what words he used here for the X but if he had said 'crossed' I kind of feel it would have been written that way.
There's a saying I remember from the old days, 'no buscar la quinta pata al gato'. Literal translation would be 'don't look for a fifth leg on a cat', but real meaning is don't waste time looking for something you're not going to find. Not for me to suggest that, but perhaps the possibility's there.
But then again, don't let me be a killjoy.
FrankM
Manson could have been inspired by the cross branding on the forehead and put his own spin on it.
The movie sounds like it was totally opposite of Manson's views though, with the women being the aggressors and initiators. That aspect couldn't have set too well with him.
Interesting bit about filming this movie at the ranch: http://books.google.com/books?id=JJhb4abmZv4C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=Wild+Beyond+Belief:+Interviews+with+Exploitation+Filmmakers+of+the+1960s+and+1970s%22+by+Brian+Albright+manson&source=bl&ots=5a3cwxGnSL&sig=UfpLKUmUfXsdTdyUSWB3na5WLyc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-IbqUPfeMsj3iwLTsoGYAw&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=snippet&q=spahn&f=false
I recall hearing Red or one of the girls say the X was actually a "falling cross",,,
The quote I read (on another blog) was “…the mark on my head simulates the death head, black stamp of rejection, anti-church, falling cross, devil sign, death, terror, fear", but I have no idea where it was taken from. Fairly average claptrap, if you ask me (which you didn't!).
Nor do I know what "falling cross" might refer to. Is it perhaps the inverted cross so believed of Hollywood satanism?
Any ideas, anyone?
FrankM
I just read a book called "EASY RIDERS RAGING BULLS" 1998 it mentions that Manson wanted Dennis Hopper to star in the film version of his life. Hopper didnt want to meet Manson becaue Sebring had been a good friend-but curiosity got the best of Hopper ( Im paraphrasing) it continues that Hopper asked Manson why he cut himself, a cross on his forehead-Mansons response was "Dont you read the newspapers man, all my followers have cut themselves like this so when the black revolution comes,they'll know which ones are mine". book is by Peter Biskind
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