*shaking my damn head* I just cannot fathom that this trick was hanging out with the killer of her mother!!! Even if one could forgive their loved one's killer, how could one become friends with them?! I had a friend who was murdered 30 years ago and hell to the no on forgiving the creep who killed her!
This girl indeed is touched in the head. Even if you didn't get along with your mom, you don't befriend her killer. There's no logic behind it, as far as I'm concerned. Love the way Doris talks to her on that one parole hearing.
She was attractive back then. Still creepy, though. I agree with you, Reeses. I could never cozy-up to someone who had killed my loved ones. Forgive perhaps for my own soul, but never befriend them.
If the theory is correct though, they were acquainted before the murders.
Yes, Suze she was attractive in this photo - and strongly favors Rosemary strongly I might add.
Her support for his parole adds to the suspicion of a quid pro quo in my humble opinion. The ominous threat of Tex coming clean on a conspiracy would provide motivation for her to play ball.
Tex was able to turn the daughter of one of his victims in his fan, and she literally served at his bidding in an attempt to help him.
Tex was able to attract and marry a women from behind bars- whom he was able to run a business through and have children with.
Tex was able to manipulate an entire prison administrative infrastructure to the point where he was running the Prison Chapel- had his own office and was able to appoint his own assistant ( Bruce of all people for a spell)
Tex was the one who went in and stabbed and shot and terrorized the victims with the girls on both nights....
When Bugs needed to look for inspiration for the Most Evil Man on Earth he turned Charlie into- he sure didn't have to look far.
Put what Tex did with how Charlie looked and the way all of them acted...
I honestly believe they could have used a peanut butter and jelly sandwich motive and the verdict might have been the same.
do many of you think it mattered much to the jury what the reason was it happened- when nobody in the defense ever bothered to put up any defense that they did NOT do it????
Tex is clearly much brighter than Charlie- and that makes him much more dangerous...
and maybe lends some more credence to the possibility he did have more to do with these choices of locations than I previously thought....
It would be beyond reason to me- but as time wanders on something I HAVE to start thinking about more- to think of BUT
what if Charlie really wasn't the reason or driving force behind either Ceilo or Waverly? What if he really was just an " advisor" and what if he really did go back to Cielo because they told him what happened and he didn't believe it and went back to see for himself???
What if he is just a rambling small time con who has been mumbling all these years about what has been essentially the truth regarding TLB and his personal involvement....
Everyone seems to agree Bugs blew H/S up into legend. I argue he didn't need to go that far to get convictions on any of them
I recall my father’s view was the lawyers were making the case unnecessarily complicated. No one (from his age group) had a problem with understanding the convictions at Nuremberg of Goring, Jodl and Keitel who never killed anyone directly.
Between the evidence and testimony of Family members, there wasn’t much in the way of ambiguity as to who was involved in the murders. The fact that Manson went into the La Bianca home, and tied them up appears to be plenty to include his involvement in their murders.
Kasabian and Brunner were granted immunity in order to get their testimony which clearly implicated Manson regardless of the Helter Skelter motivation. Kasabian was at the Cielo crime scene and could have feigned ignorance about what was going to happen that night, no so much at Waverly. If Brunner didn’t get the itch to return and make a mess of the Western Surplus robbery, she could have appreciated how she barely dodged a bullet (Kay wanted he indicted for murder) and faded into the background.
Sandra Good, but for the grace of God, is living proof of how near impossible it must be to spend any real time in jail, unless you have that ‘fire in your belly’ to end up there. She’s involved deeply with the family, knew about the murders and did nothing, obfuscated the court proceedings any way she could, crashed a van driving an escapee through the streets of LA, roomed with a failed assassin, and finally got nailed for writing a few thousand letters, threatening people’s lives. Well played Sandra, well played indeed.
Nancy Pitman decides to go off on her own and open a ‘Chuck E Manson’ franchise which is little more than a smaller scale version of Helter Skelter. She kills for property (car), one murder is portrayed as a Russian Roulette suicide (Lauren), they move into other’s homes and make themselves at home, commit crimes to obtain another’s bail and engage in similar shenanigans in court with getting married to other defendants and claiming persecution by the state. It had the earmarks of ‘Manson see, Manson do’; which demonstrated more of a teacher student result than some mindless zombie who is utterly powerless under Manson’s spell.
It would seem logical or more accurately, less incomprehensibly dumbfounding, that Tex would have honed some skills regarding manipulation, persuasion and working the system to his maximum benefit. He certainly has motivation to try to win over Suzan (sensing opportunity with her?) and invest every molecule of his existence to become her friend, or at least blunt her view of his crimes. If she was somehow in collusion with Tex, he didn’t help himself by killing Shorty with no drug motive, then running to the depths of the desert before running off to Texas.
This girl indeed is touched in the head. Even if you didn't get along with your mom, you don't befriend her killer. There's no logic behind it, as far as I'm concerned. Love the way Doris talks to her on that one parole hearing. ---------------------------------------- Which parole hearing is that? Is it on youtube? If yes, which one is it? Thanks
Tex and Suzan are brother and sister, children of christ. The Suzan theory sure has Tex and The Family coming up empty handed. Talk about the raw end of a deal.
Did Tex trun Susan or were they partners from the start? For as disgusting as this crime was, it wouldn't make sense that anyone of the victims families would forgive or forget unless they knew the real motive and were part of the whole thing
For those of you who have never had the chance to visit Texs ministry website- he has a docudrama on there called " Forgiven the Charles Tex Watson Story"
http://aboundinglove.org/media/index.php
Scenes from original docudrame, including interviews with Charles and Rosemary LaBianca's daughter.
of course you know what type of agenda this will have- but after seeing this- you cannot misunderstand the levels this woman was willing to go to to help him...
Here is how Tex describes what happened to himself :
In the beginning, life was too easy for Charles "Tex" Watson. As a star athlete in high school, many people knew that he was on the road to greatness. But for "Tex", life didn't feel complete. He always felt an emptiness inside, something was missing and soon he began searching for that something or someone who would bring fulfillment and purpose to his life. His Search led him into the arms of Charles Manson. Manson and his family of followers gave "Tex" the security and acceptance he longed for. Through the use of free sex and drugs. Manson began to slowly gain complete control of him and the the other family members. By the time "Tex" realized how much out of control his life was, it was too late! His participation in the murder of the La Biancas had tied him to one of the most gruesome and cold blooded crimes in history. Could God forgive someone like Charles "Tex" Watson? Could "Tex" forgive himself? "Tex" found out for himself just how merciful God can be. Award winning DocuDrama:
Running Time Approximately 36:12 Minutes -- Produced by: Cutting Edge Films and Biola Films
I dont know if there is a god or not. But if there is I am quite sure he thinks Tex is just as much a dueche bag as the rest of us do :)
All this Tex/LaBerge talk got me thinking, it's been awhile since I've watched FORGIVEN. So I popped it in the vhs player (do I even still have one of these?) and wow, that movie is like a million times worse than the last time I saw it.
All this Tex/LaBerge talk got me thinking, it's been awhile since I've watched FORGIVEN. So I popped it in the vhs player (do I even still have one of those?) and wow, that movie is like a million times worse than the last time I saw it.
tex's oldest son went to oral roberts university, i believe on a scholarship and served in the first iraq war. i don't know anything other than the names of the other three, other than they were all home schooled and considered manson to be satan himself, literally.
Funny thing is, I haven't seen Suzan at Tex's latest parole hearings. Those pictures, and clips are from the early 90's, I think. How come she hasn't been appearing at his latest ones? Another thing: how come she just wanted to get HIM PAROLED, and not Leslie, and Pat? Or, for that matter, Charles Manson himself. .
I'm thinking she may have had an interest in understanding her mother's killer to help her make sense of her mother's death. Befriending him was a means of doing that.
I know your comment is old,but the connections before the fact/murders of the daughter and watson is new to me. Just found that info yesterday. And YOUR info on watson...of which has never,imo been put together step by step like you did. Which mskes me wonder if maybe charlie REALLY did only want "something witchy" as in just terrifying to be done. But tex took it to a whole other stage?. Either way thr people are dead...smdh. That daughter was/is way involved, more so than forgving him. And why did she ONLY speak out TEX?.
Unknown, Absolutely. Due to the 50th Anniversary of these horrific crimes, I’ve been reading about them (again). This young woman was dating some guy from a motorcycle gang (a bad one); she was no angel. Seemed like whoever had been breaking into the LaBianca home always knew when they’d be away. Apparently, she benefited financially from the deaths. Her step-siblings were reportedly upset that she began loading up household belongings before they had the opportunity to get to the house. It’s too suspicious that she had lived “200 feet” from Tex at a point in time prior to the murders and then her mother and step-father are randomly chosen—and murdered by this man...THEN she befriends him after he is incarcerated and attends his parole hearings! WTH?!
Unknown, Absolutely. Due to the 50th Anniversary of these horrific crimes, I’ve been reading about them (again). This young woman was dating some guy from a motorcycle gang (a bad one); she was no angel. Seemed like whoever had been breaking into the LaBianca home always knew when they’d be away. Apparently, she benefited financially from the deaths. Her step-siblings were reportedly upset that she began loading up household belongings before they had the opportunity to get to the house. It’s too suspicious that she had lived “200 feet” from Tex at a point in time prior to the murders and then her mother and step-father are randomly chosen—and murdered by this man...THEN she befriends him after he is incarcerated and attends his parole hearings! WTH?!
31 comments:
*shaking my damn head*
I just cannot fathom that this trick was hanging out with the killer of her mother!!! Even if one could forgive their loved one's killer, how could one become friends with them?! I had a friend who was murdered 30 years ago and hell to the no on forgiving the creep who killed her!
Are those her kids or Tex's? Both of their kids? I'm kinda new on this, though I've been reading on Chaz & goons for 30+ years.
ReesesPeace said...
Are those her kids or Tex's? Both of their kids? I'm kinda new on this, though I've been reading on Chaz & goons for 30+ years.
They are Tex's children.
This girl indeed is touched in the head. Even if you didn't get along with your mom, you don't befriend her killer. There's no logic behind it, as far as I'm concerned. Love the way Doris talks to her on that one parole hearing.
She was attractive back then. Still creepy, though. I agree with you, Reeses. I could never cozy-up to someone who had killed my loved ones. Forgive perhaps for my own soul, but never befriend them.
If the theory is correct though, they were acquainted before the murders.
Yes, Suze she was attractive in this photo - and strongly favors Rosemary strongly I might add.
Her support for his parole adds to the suspicion of a quid pro quo in my humble opinion. The ominous threat of Tex coming clean on a conspiracy would provide motivation for her to play ball.
Tex was able to turn the daughter of one of his victims in his fan, and she literally served at his bidding in an attempt to help him.
Tex was able to attract and marry a women from behind bars- whom he was able to run a business through and have children with.
Tex was able to manipulate an entire prison administrative infrastructure to the point where he was running the Prison Chapel- had his own office and was able to appoint his own assistant ( Bruce of all people for a spell)
Tex was the one who went in and stabbed and shot and terrorized the victims with the girls on both nights....
When Bugs needed to look for inspiration for the Most Evil Man on Earth he turned Charlie into- he sure didn't have to look far.
Put what Tex did with how Charlie looked and the way all of them acted...
I honestly believe they could have used a peanut butter and jelly sandwich motive and the verdict might have been the same.
do many of you think it mattered much to the jury what the reason was it happened- when nobody in the defense ever bothered to put up any defense that they did NOT do it????
Tex is clearly much brighter than Charlie- and that makes him much more dangerous...
and maybe lends some more credence to the possibility he did have more to do with these choices of locations than I previously thought....
It would be beyond reason to me- but as time wanders on something I HAVE to start thinking about more- to think of BUT
what if Charlie really wasn't the reason or driving force behind either Ceilo or Waverly? What if he really was just an " advisor" and what if he really did go back to Cielo because they told him what happened and he didn't believe it and went back to see for himself???
What if he is just a rambling small time con who has been mumbling all these years about what has been essentially the truth regarding TLB and his personal involvement....
Everyone seems to agree Bugs blew H/S up into legend. I argue he didn't need to go that far to get convictions on any of them
except Charlie... and it did get Charlie...
it made him part of it...
Was he?
Was Charlie going back to places he was familiar with those two nights..
or was TEX???
Charlie was definitely a part of it, and got what was coming to him. But now I question whether he was the mastermind, at least with LaBianca.
no doubt he got what was coming to him...
but yeah that is what I was trying to get at- does the motive go through Tex and not Charlie??
you phrased it better.. short and simple lol not my strength :)
I recall my father’s view was the lawyers were making the case unnecessarily complicated. No one (from his age group) had a problem with understanding the convictions at Nuremberg of Goring, Jodl and Keitel who never killed anyone directly.
Between the evidence and testimony of Family members, there wasn’t much in the way of ambiguity as to who was involved in the murders. The fact that Manson went into the La Bianca home, and tied them up appears to be plenty to include his involvement in their murders.
Kasabian and Brunner were granted immunity in order to get their testimony which clearly implicated Manson regardless of the Helter Skelter motivation. Kasabian was at the Cielo crime scene and could have feigned ignorance about what was going to happen that night, no so much at Waverly. If Brunner didn’t get the itch to return and make a mess of the Western Surplus robbery, she could have appreciated how she barely dodged a bullet (Kay wanted he indicted for murder) and faded into the background.
Sandra Good, but for the grace of God, is living proof of how near impossible it must be to spend any real time in jail, unless you have that ‘fire in your belly’ to end up there. She’s involved deeply with the family, knew about the murders and did nothing, obfuscated the court proceedings any way she could, crashed a van driving an escapee through the streets of LA, roomed with a failed assassin, and finally got nailed for writing a few thousand letters, threatening people’s lives. Well played Sandra, well played indeed.
Nancy Pitman decides to go off on her own and open a ‘Chuck E Manson’ franchise which is little more than a smaller scale version of Helter Skelter. She kills for property (car), one murder is portrayed as a Russian Roulette suicide (Lauren), they move into other’s homes and make themselves at home, commit crimes to obtain another’s bail and engage in similar shenanigans in court with getting married to other defendants and claiming persecution by the state. It had the earmarks of ‘Manson see, Manson do’; which demonstrated more of a teacher student result than some mindless zombie who is utterly powerless under Manson’s spell.
It would seem logical or more accurately, less incomprehensibly dumbfounding, that Tex would have honed some skills regarding manipulation, persuasion and working the system to his maximum benefit. He certainly has motivation to try to win over Suzan (sensing opportunity with her?) and invest every molecule of his existence to become her friend, or at least blunt her view of his crimes. If she was somehow in collusion with Tex, he didn’t help himself by killing Shorty with no drug motive, then running to the depths of the desert before running off to Texas.
Schalke 07 said...
This girl indeed is touched in the head. Even if you didn't get along with your mom, you don't befriend her killer. There's no logic behind it, as far as I'm concerned. Love the way Doris talks to her on that one parole hearing.
----------------------------------------
Which parole hearing is that? Is it on youtube? If yes, which one is it?
Thanks
Doc, have a look here
Doc, I went ahead & added the video to the post...
INTERVIEWER: If Suzan LaBerge were in the room with us, what would you say to her?
DORIS TATE: You dumb shit!!!
Right on!
Tex and Suzan are brother and sister, children of christ.
The Suzan theory sure has Tex and The Family coming up empty handed. Talk about the raw end of a deal.
Did Tex trun Susan or were they partners from the start? For as disgusting as this crime was, it wouldn't make sense that anyone of the victims families would forgive or forget unless they knew the real motive and were part of the whole thing
For those of you who have never had the chance to visit Texs ministry website- he has a docudrama on there called " Forgiven the Charles Tex Watson Story"
http://aboundinglove.org/media/index.php
Scenes from original docudrame, including interviews with Charles and Rosemary LaBianca's daughter.
of course you know what type of agenda this will have- but after seeing this- you cannot misunderstand the levels this woman was willing to go to to help him...
Here is how Tex describes what happened to himself :
In the beginning, life was too easy for Charles "Tex" Watson. As a star athlete in high school, many people knew that he was on the road to greatness. But for "Tex", life didn't feel complete. He always felt an emptiness inside, something was missing and soon he began searching for that something or someone who would bring fulfillment and purpose to his life. His Search led him into the arms of Charles Manson. Manson and his family of followers gave "Tex" the security and acceptance he longed for. Through the use of free sex and drugs. Manson began to slowly gain complete control of him and the the other family members. By the time "Tex" realized how much out of control his life was, it was too late! His participation in the murder of the La Biancas had tied him to one of the most gruesome and cold blooded crimes in history. Could God forgive someone like Charles "Tex" Watson? Could "Tex" forgive himself? "Tex" found out for himself just how merciful God can be.
Award winning DocuDrama:
Running Time Approximately 36:12 Minutes -- Produced by: Cutting Edge Films and Biola Films
I dont know if there is a god or not. But if there is I am quite sure he thinks Tex is just as much a dueche bag as the rest of us do :)
All this Tex/LaBerge talk got me thinking, it's been awhile since I've watched FORGIVEN. So I popped it in the vhs player (do I even still have one of these?) and wow, that movie is like a million times worse than the last time I saw it.
All this Tex/LaBerge talk got me thinking, it's been awhile since I've watched FORGIVEN. So I popped it in the vhs player (do I even still have one of those?) and wow, that movie is like a million times worse than the last time I saw it.
and there is a review for you all from an expert lol
nice timing Cielo lol
By the way- I hope you know that was meant as legitimate compliment...
Cielo is also a great website packed with great info... one of my first places
I dont pass around the title expert often- I hope it was taken appropriately...
Wonder what Tex,s kids turn out like scary that he was able to breed possible Physcotics
Wow St., we must have the same brain, posting about that horrible movie at the same time.
Thanks for the kind words. But trust me, I'm no expert on anything. Just probably spend more time than I should, thinking about this crap.
tex's oldest son went to oral roberts university, i believe on a scholarship and served in the first iraq war. i don't know anything other than the names of the other three, other than they were all home schooled and considered manson to be satan himself, literally.
Funny thing is, I haven't seen Suzan at Tex's latest parole hearings. Those pictures, and clips are from the early 90's, I think. How come she hasn't been appearing at his latest ones? Another thing: how come she just wanted to get HIM PAROLED, and not Leslie, and Pat? Or, for that matter, Charles Manson himself. .
I'm thinking she may have had an interest in understanding her mother's killer to help her make sense of her mother's death. Befriending him was a means of doing that.
I know your comment is old,but the connections before the fact/murders of the daughter and watson is new to me. Just found that info yesterday. And YOUR info on watson...of which has never,imo been put together step by step like you did. Which mskes me wonder if maybe charlie REALLY did only want "something witchy" as in just terrifying to be done. But tex took it to a whole other stage?. Either way thr people are dead...smdh. That daughter was/is way involved, more so than forgving him. And why did she ONLY speak out TEX?.
Unknown, Absolutely. Due to the 50th Anniversary of these horrific crimes, I’ve been reading about them (again). This young woman was dating some guy from a motorcycle gang (a bad one); she was no angel. Seemed like whoever had been breaking into the LaBianca home always knew when they’d be away.
Apparently, she benefited financially from the deaths. Her step-siblings were reportedly upset that she began loading up household belongings before they had the opportunity to get to the house.
It’s too suspicious that she had lived “200 feet” from Tex at a point in time prior to the murders and then her mother and step-father are randomly chosen—and murdered by this man...THEN she befriends him after he is incarcerated and attends his parole hearings! WTH?!
Unknown, Absolutely. Due to the 50th Anniversary of these horrific crimes, I’ve been reading about them (again). This young woman was dating some guy from a motorcycle gang (a bad one); she was no angel. Seemed like whoever had been breaking into the LaBianca home always knew when they’d be away.
Apparently, she benefited financially from the deaths. Her step-siblings were reportedly upset that she began loading up household belongings before they had the opportunity to get to the house.
It’s too suspicious that she had lived “200 feet” from Tex at a point in time prior to the murders and then her mother and step-father are randomly chosen—and murdered by this man...THEN she befriends him after he is incarcerated and attends his parole hearings! WTH?!
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