In keeping with the murder theory post Patty touched on, I wanted to share a quote from an article sent to me by a group of our German members.
This is the only time I personally ever heard Sandy speak of her first meeting with Charlie, besides the story she was with friends who's vehicle had broken down. One of the friends mentioned he knew a mechanic buddy of his that was chillin at Spahn Ranch and perhaps the friend could fix the vehicle. They stopped at the ranch, Sandy met Charlie and his bitches, removed her jewelry and makeup, and the rest is Manson history. I wonder if that vehicle ever did get fixed. The link can be translated into spotty English. How you perceive it as usual is open to friendly discussion.
"When I first saw him he was stroking a cat. I don't know what fascinated me. He seemed so kind and attractive, his movements were a bit mysterious." Sandra Pugh.
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-45520373.html
To my German friends, please e-mail me I lost your address.
To my German friends, please e-mail me I lost your address.
Here’s another version of how Sandra was first ‘introduced’ to Charlie (first paragraph below photo of Polanski and Tate):
ReplyDeleteHow Charlie met Sandy
Some of the simplest things sure seem to have a great deal of variation, from Sandy breaking down near Spahn’s to a purposeful journey financed by an un-named friend. I’ll bet there are a couple other versions out there somewhere.
Manson was the one with the broken down bus and Sandy suggested they have it fixed by her mechanic friend that was living at Spahn.
ReplyDeleteHer meeting Manson came before this, in Topanga, I believe.
I like the English translation. It says, "The perpetrators were members of a spooky bum-sect." HA-HA. That is a wonderful description of them. The article also calls Charles Manson a "bum-guru." hahaha.....
ReplyDeleteI kind of liked the "spooky bum sect" translation also.
ReplyDeleteAlso, apparently, there was just a former Manson family member in the chat room at Star City Radio. Of course I don't know that for sure, but it sure sounded like it. She wouldn't give her name, only "Anon 8252". She was on there for about 2 hours remembering as much as she could. She was apparently at Spahn for about 6 months, she remembered the exact date she left, May 20, 1969, she wanted to go to Woodstock. She knew and remembered nearly all the family members. She said she didn't like DeCarlo or Share. She remembered the Harley Neil Young gave to Manson that he later wrecked into a bakery. She said she felt sorry for the kids at the ranch, they were all naked and covered with bug bites.
The transcript is probably still in the chat room there if anyone is interested.
Some things simply don’t translate.
ReplyDeleteI demonstrated my linguistic skills in Mexico where I tried to order some watermelon and did a direct translation of water (agua) and melon (melon) only to get a quizzical stare. So I did what all Americans do in such a situation and repeated it slower and LOUDER. I don’t know why foreigners can’t understand this, especially foreigners in Mexico. Yes, I believe people in their home countries are foreigners, nothing odd about that. As it turns out there is no ‘watermelon’ per se, but there are ‘sandia’ and that made me a little smarter.
That same journey I went to one of their funky pharmacies to get some aspirin, but didn’t know the word and wasn’t about to guess after embarrassing myself with watermelon. So I told the fetching young lady behind the counter ‘Mi calabaza duele’ which means ‘my head hurts’. She asked me to repeat and I obliged with a slower and louder version. She leaves and comes back with two coworkers and asks me once again. They started to snicker then laugh. I guess having a headache is a real riot around there. Except the word I needed to use was ‘cabeza’ not ‘calabaza’. Because instead of saying I had a headache, I was actually yelling “My pumpkin hurts”. I guess I should leave any mention of gourds out of any Spanish that I translate.
Can I please ask: Is Ivan Pugh the son of Charles Manson? I know in the pictures they took of him when he was a baby, and also on videos I have seen, he looks a lot like Manson. Just wanted to ask.
ReplyDeleteAnn, we are pretty sure that Charlie is NOT the father. However, it may be another family member if our info is correct.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Ivan's father the one that was shot in the hotel in England?
ReplyDeleteAl,
ReplyDeleteSimon wells put up a terrific detailed accounting of Joel Pugh here:
http://joelpughcharlesmanson.blogspot.com/
And no, Joel Pugh was not Ivan's biological father.
ReplyDeleteI've read that Ivan went to college on an athletic scholarship. This makes me suspect that Tex might have been his father.
ReplyDelete18, 2012 4:17 PM
ReplyDeletesunset77 said...
Also, apparently, there was just a former Manson family member in the chat room at Star City Radio. Of course I don't know that for sure, but it sure sounded like it.
Who do you think it was? Do tell.
AustinAnn74 said...
ReplyDeleteCan I please ask: Is Ivan Pugh the son of Charles Manson? I know in the pictures they took of him when he was a baby, and also on videos I have seen, he looks a lot like Manson. Just wanted to ask.
No
Al said...
ReplyDeleteWasn't Ivan's father the one that was shot in the hotel in England?
No
Matt is Ivan's father. :)~
ReplyDeleteeviliz said...
ReplyDeleteWho do you think it was? Do tell.
I don't know who it was, she didn't want to give out her name. JohnnySeattle kept trying to get her to e-mail Brian Davis, I don't know if she will or not.
She apparently knew a great many details, she said Kasabian was at the Tate house 3 times on the day of the murders doing drugs. She seemed to think the murders were about drugs. I'm not so sure about some of the things she said.
She said she might come back and bring someone with her. Apparently, she has some pretty good inside info, whether it's all true or not, I don't know.
eviliz said...
ReplyDeleteMatt is Ivan's father. :)~
Matt looks rather young. How old was he when he and Sandy hooked up?
But if she left Spahn on May 20 she would never have met Kasabian.
ReplyDeleteMatt said...
ReplyDeleteBut if she left Spahn on May 20 she would never have met Kasabian
One of the first questions was "did you know Kasabian", she said yes. I asked "did you ever meet "Sexy Sadie", she said "yes". I asked if she had ever been arrested in a Spahn ranch raid, she said no. I asked if she knew Dee Dee Landsbury, she said no.
Where she was at and what she was doing at a given time was somewhat unclear, possibly deliberately, she mentioned several times that she was old, I think she said she was 15 when she first went to the ranch. Also, I think she was smoking pot as she was chatting.
She said "billy" (Garretson) was a lookout the night of the murders. She said she read the Sanders book and laughed. She said it was very sad when she heard "Martha" died. We were talking about Paul Watkins, I'll have to determine if Watkins had a wife named Martha.
She said she was closest to "Red and Blue". Said her ex husband was a Hells Angel. Said her husband didn't wear his HA colors when they went to Spahn. Said Charlie called her husband "Red and White" (HA colors). Said Manson was working on a car the first time she seen him.
She said she visited one of the girls in prison, she wouldn't say which one. She said she sent letters and I think a set of drums to Charlie in prison.
How much of what she said is true, or even who she is I don't know. It may just all be BS, but some of it sounded real.
My mind is open. However when I heard that she left Spahn May 20 but also knew LK my bullshit detector went off.
ReplyDeleteMatt said...
ReplyDeleteMy mind is open. However when I heard that she left Spahn May 20 but also knew LK my bullshit detector went off.
Someone said they'd smelled BS, she said, "then you better get your bulls out of the creek honey"
I don't need to stand my cattle in a creek to smell shit, but for the moment I have to give the benefit of the doubt - especially since I missed the program.
ReplyDeleteHopefully she returns.
Just shooting my mouth off, of course, but from reading what you all have written here about the chat room 'family' member I would bet it may be a certain Mr. JimNY from Staten Island, NY.
ReplyDeleteMatt said...especially since I missed the program.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't a program, it was after the "bonus" chat Brian had Wednesday night. I had to leave the bonus chat early but I came back later. There were only 4 of us on. JohnnySeattle, Me, another anon, and this person.
That chat room is open all the time and people pop in and out. Yes, I hope she comes back again also, she tried to come back on there yesterday I'm pretty sure and posted about 3 comments. I just missed her by a few minutes.
Starship, I doubt Jimmy would have made the obvious error on the timing of LK's arrival at Spahn, unless he was just screwing with people on a different plane than he usually does.
ReplyDeleteCould it have been "Vicki?"
ReplyDeleteMatt, Patty is reading the convo over at SCR right now and y'know, if she's a fake, she's a damned good one. Her story is pretty airtight.
ReplyDeleteummm, except for the Linda thing...
ReplyDeleteso, probably not.
Right!
ReplyDeleteWhat secondary source is there regarding Kasabian’s arrival at Spahn’s? I’m aware of her testimony but it is one of those few absolutes in a story filled with smoke and foam.
ReplyDeleteWas it really the Fourth of July, Independence Day, when Linda gained her ‘independence’ while coincidentally being a date the most drug addled and whip sawn of brains could recall? I know that none of the family members will be any help because it has been published and published how clocks and calendars weren’t allowed at the ranch, as part of Charlie’s mind control. Ooo-ee-ooo. Did Squeaky remember because the ranch was especially busy with it being a three day week-end and nice weather? Apparently Tex wasn’t too tuckered out since he was a temporary bone donor to Linda that day. When Linda was sleeping on the roof or in the cave and being all groovy, did she trip on all the amazing colors from the fireworks that night? Hmmm….. kind of a dull Fourth.
Yet everyone’s suspension of disbelief is back at ramming speed, when the TV is dramatically tuned to the news on the Tate murders. How would they know what time the news comes on?
Is there a police report which Melton filed over the lost $5,000 dollars or was Charlie’s threat of opening a can of whoop-ass enough to scare away Melton and Mr. Kasabian?
Awesome read Matt! Thanks!
ReplyDeleteyes, paul watkins was married to a woman named martha. they had two daughters and martha died a few years ago.
ReplyDeletebeauders said...
ReplyDeleteyes, paul watkins was married to a woman named martha. they had two daughters and martha died a few years ago.
Thanx for that Beauders, I thought so, haven't had time to verify it for sure. That woman said that "Martha" wanted to take her 2 daughters to visit Manson but he wouldn't see her. She said she killed herself shortly afterward. Of course I don't know if that's true, she did say it was sad to hear Martha died though.
I just talked to that woman again for about 1 hour, she didn't say much this time. I told her the Star City show was at 8 on Sunday, she said she might be able to make it by 9.
Good point Farflung! How DID they know what time the news came on
ReplyDeletei think they had the tv on all day as the news was breaking news and interrupted regular programming.
ReplyDeletePanamint Patty said...
ReplyDeleteCould it have been "Vicki?"
I am so behind on the blog but while catching up before I even saw what Patty asked, I thought "Vicki" also.
You all might have read about Vicki in CM NOW.
I am like I said way behind so who even knows if anyone will read this since I responded so late but-"Vicki" has been around since Mark Turner had a message board. She was known around M town by the screen name "Wheat." I am sure at least ONE person here has/had beef with her.
WORD UP
ReplyDelete