Someone must wonder about her.
She was distinct looking, tall and willowy, and had a mouthful of dental work, suggesting a middle-class background and parents who cared. So why, former homicide detective Cliff Shepard wants to know, does she still not have a name?
Thank you Wes Johnson for the link!
30 comments:
This woman was murdered over 40 years ago, the police don't even know her name yet they try to blame her murder on "members of the Manson family". Sounds like more reckless speculation without any evidence to me.
Great coverage over the last few days of this VERY EXCITING new story...
What worries me is that when Tex was talking to Boyd-
1 Boyd was a family friend, and Tex was trying to keep his family as far removed from this as possible so why admit to more...
2 Tex was in full image rehab mode at that time, so why admit to more??
Although- the fact that he fought the release of these tapes does make you wonder...
Also- he stopped adding new posts/updating to his website about a year ago...
Do you think that is a coincidence??
Or could that have been about the time he realized this stuff might get out in the near future, and he realized that he could give up the religious nonsense and all the " helping" others as now his goose is surely permanently cooked???
OR lol is this all a bunch of nonsense????
Some of us wait so patiently for anything new in this case...
and this would be really something if it lives up to the drama I have been building up in my mind...
WHATS ON THE TAPES??????
Still somehow-
For Tex to make any bold confessions about other murders on tape to a family friend....
I am not too optimistic
ST! What did you discover on your fact finding mission? Patty is interested to hear.
Thank you Wes Johnson for the info on Jane Doe. All Patty has ever seen is that bad pencil drawing of her that makes her look bucktoothed. She was a pretty girl, even in death. Sad.
wow, Matt and Liz score again big time. I have longed for actual autopry photos of Jane Doe and here they are. Thnks to the Wes guy. This one should be solvable. And wasn't it the clothing, ID'd by Ruby Pearl, that linked Jane to the Family? It's an interesting tale.
Good to hear from the Saint again.
What would Woodstock have been like with cell phones and laptops? Idiot question, but I watch and listen to allot of Woodstock music while I visit this blog. Gets me back to '69. Santana's Soul Sacrifice always gets me.
Leary, Mr. Patty just told me Carlos was called early to the stage while flying on Mescaline - he thought he had a few more hours before he was on. The result is streaming from the speakers of your Mac as Patty types...doesn't suck. No way.
Well Patty I did not have the benefit of personal escorts- or the pleasure of so much company as interested as I am in the subject, so it really was not the main purpose of my trip out there...
I had friends to visit and a wife to keep entertained, so I did not get to have nearly as much Manson related experience out there as you guys did...
I did not find any of your left over bottles or roaches
I did not find Col's house painter
Spahn Ranch - when you go alone and without anyone who really can point out exactly what was what- is basically a hill of nothing ...
Cielo Drive- is another street the cops wont let you near if you dont have a house in the area or belong their.
The courthouse and Topanga locations were cool- but nothing that grabs me or made me feel any obvious connection to the case...
except nostalgia lol- never could convince anyone to make time or take the drive out to death Valley area or the Barker Ranch
most of the old locations are new business or houses now...
San Fran was cool- saw the Cole st. House and The old Russian Embassy building... but again- its hard to tell what they looked like back in the day...
But I still get a totally different vibe when I am out in California than I do back in New York area where I am from or South Florida where I live...
It just " feels" different to me being out there and I really loved it...
next time your all out there I will tag along with you guys
( if possible) and get to meet with the people who know their way around...
besides hearing scary stories at the fire place ( or El coyote) is only scary when other people are their to scare you, who know the story...
I was on my own
So while I had a great trip, and will be going back soon...
not much learned new personally - as far as Mr. Manson and company...
St., we'll keep you in the loop for ELT '13.
Thanks Matt- I would love to participate :)
St wrote:
Cielo Drive- is another street the cops wont let you near if you dont have a house in the area or belong their.
I've been up there about three times. The best way to get a good look is to go up to Bella Drive which is across the canyon. Summer & I were parked up there taking pics one day and a resident came down in a car and stopped to talk to us, I thought "crap he's gonna tell us to leave" but he actually commented about how beautiful a view he has and just asked how we were. Also on Bella Drive is the old Falcon Lair where Valentino lived. It's very nice up there.
St wrote:
Cielo Drive- is another street the cops wont let you near if you dont have a house in the area or belong their.
Is Cielo Drive on private property? I thought it was a public road.
It's a public road, but 10050 is on a private drive.
Another good place to see the entire property is 9955 Beverly Grove Dr across the canyon.
I am glad that this girl's photo has been published. Thanks Wes for posting this one.
I am guessing that if she was 20 when she died, then her parents, if alive today, must be about 80 years old. So chances are that they don't go online and will never see this, particularly if they are from Canada or the eastern states. I guess that anyone currently alive who would remember her and recognize this photo would be a classmate or a younger sibling, and probably they have stopped actively looking for her... So sad. I cannot help but think that if this photo could have been released when the crime was fresh, or even 20 years ago, she might have still been recognized. I suppose it was considered too "gory" for release, at that time. The artist's sketch is not a close likeness, unfortunately. I agree with Leary that it was Ruby Pearl who identified the clothing, but there was nothing that really stood out about her attire---it looks pretty typical. One of her rings appears to be one of those mood rings (???) that are hot again now with the junior high set.
I hope this photo gets faxed all over the continent, and some smart cold case detective makes the connection. I bet she was just some out-of-town hitchhiker/runaway who came to California to check out the scene, and she got into the wrong car with some creep. Poor girl! R.I.P.
Again, I must comment about what Tex said in his book "Will you die for me?" He wrote:
There were three basic motives behind the murders that took place sometime past midnight on August 9. The most obvious was the one Charlie had articulated to us that afternoon: to do what blackie didn't have the energy or the smarts to do-ignite Helter Skelter and bring in Charlie's kingdom. There was also the need for more cash, first of all to finance our preparations for Armageddon-the same thing that had motivated the drug burn and Bernard Crowe's supposed murder, the killing of Gary Hinman, and ALL THE PROPOSED ABDUCTIONS AND MURDERS IN THE CHATSWORTH AREA-and also to pay $600 bail for Mary Brunner, who had been arrested earlier that day for using a stolen Sears' credit card.
He was admitting that the family WERE responsible! Don't ya think?
What I have never understood was why don't we know if this actual photo and not just the drawing was shown to Family members to see if anyone would own up to recognizing her. Certainly some of the more repentant members such as Hoyt, Lake and Bailey (sounds like a law firm) would be willing to say if they had seen Jane at Spahn, even if she was just there for a few days.
obsessive minds want to know...
morgue photo's are so creepy.
AustinAnn74 said...
"He was admitting that the family WERE responsible! Don't ya think?"
No, I don't think so. What I think is they were all sitting around on dope and Charlie says basically, "we should kill these people, or we should kill those people" like Steve McQueen, etc.
Hendrickson said when Grogan came back from visiting Charlie in jail Grogan asked Hendrickson, "what would happen if there were 75 seemingly unrelated murders in LA?"
Manson lived in a fantasy world and always wanted to murder people as long as someone else did the murdering.
I'm guessing that idle chatter by Manson is where Watson's idea of "proposed" murders came from that were never carried out.
Watson mentions no details of other murders, who was murdered, where they were murdered, who did it, who drove the car, what weapons were used, etc. In fact, I don't think Watson even mentions Donald Shea in his book who he helped murder. Watson may very well have been involved in other murders, but I doubt he "mentions" them anywhere.
Watson tells at least one whopper in his book. A whopper by omission - the Shorty Shea killing. He stated something like "If not for me seven people would still be alive". Donald Shea would make eight. He makes no mention of Shea.
Both Grogan and Davis put him at the scene in parole hearings. So, when he makes a definitive statement:
- I have no knowledge of any murders committed by the Manson family, other than those which have already been prosecuted by the authorities.
- I have never personally heard any Manson Family member speak of any bodies being buried at Barker Ranch.
... I put absolutely zero stock in it. If there is any possibility that remains can be unearthed, they must try.
Hi ST. C w/b
Said ST: "Spahn Ranch - when you go alone and without anyone who really can point out exactly what was what- is basically a hill of nothing ..."
Every time I have seen friends' photos, I see trees, flowers, plants, animals, birds, streams, caves, lizards, insects, pretty rocks, beautiful skies...
What more entertainments do you need?
Said Too Crowded, "
I hope this photo gets faxed all over the continent, and some smart cold case detective makes the connection. I bet she was just some out-of-town hitchhiker/runaway who came to California to check out the scene, and she got into the wrong car with some creep. Poor girl! R.I.P."
Agreed. I wonder if her poor family ever knew what happened to her, or if she just disappeared for them. Tragic.
Matt: Nine. People always forget the baby.
The question of wether anyone at Spahn would recognize the woman in this photo got me to wondering about the social heirarchy at Spahn. I have a real sense that when Manson was there anyone who would be hanging out for more than a day would be brought before him for approval. Once Manson was in jail, I wonder if the Squeakster was given the same authority.
Of course it is a longshot that Jane was a Family victim, but given the similar "overkill" in stab wounds between Jane and the TLB victims you cannot dismiss the possibility - especially given all the various Family statements about there being "others".
They say they think that Sherry Cooper is the name of Jane Doe #59, here is a article, "Sherry Cooper and Barbara Hoyt fled from Manson and the family after Hoyt overheard Susan Atkins talking about the Tate murder to Ruth Ann Morehouse. When Manson found out the two girls had run away he was described as being furious and took off after them. He found them having breakfast in a diner and gave them $20 after the girls told Manson they wanted to leave. It is rumored that he later ordered select family members to go get them and bring them back or kill them.
On November 16, 1969 an unidentified body was found which was later identified as possibly being family member, Sherry Cooper." Sherry cooper is so much shorter and oblique than the tall thin Jane Doe #59, It is thought that If they had tried to DNA the Jane Doe #59 it would have had much of Sherry Coopers DNA as it is thought that Jane Doe #59 tried to prevent Sherry Cooper form re escaping the Ranch after being ordered to be captured for trying to leave after They over heard Susan Atkins talking about teh Tate murdershttp://crime.about.com/od/murder/ig/The-Manson-Family/cooper.htm
Sherry Cooper is not Jane Doe. Sherry ended up marrying Danny DeCarlo and moving to Canada where DeCarlo had citizenship. There is an interview with both of them made by the CBC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlSvD_bO10Q
Part 2 of the interview can be accessed on the same page.
Anyone know what happened to Laura Sheppard ? I see some similarities.
She is identified now, her name is Reet Jurvertson from a family of Estonian nativity. Only problem was the family did not announce about their daughter was missing because she was a hippie and family thought it is her free will to disappear. Her sister decided to try her DNA now an it matched.
https://sites.google.com/site/reetjurvetsonsfamilymemorial/
Murder Victim Reet Jurvetson's Family Shares Their Sorrow After She's Identified by Police as Jane Doe #59 – Was She Murdered by Manson?
http://www.people.com/article/murder-victim-family-sorrow-manson-reet-jurvetson
She is alive. She is my mother and law, and currently lives in my house. No joke.
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