Sadie's son Zezozoze Zadfrack Glutz
Ruth Ann holding Zezozoze.
There has been much talk over the years about the baby in this photo.
Some say it resembles a mixed race child. Nope. It's Sadie's little white baby boy.
Sandy with Ivan
Gypsy and Clem's son Paul
Dennis Rice's children
left to right- Nicholas, Kathryn holding unknown baby, Joseph and Samuel
Babies never seen in pictures- Bobby and Kitty's daughter, Danny DeCarlo's son Dennis
and Valentine Michael Manson. Did I forget any?
I've read that at least one of Dennis Rice's kids is active in his ministry but, can't find any contemporary photos of them.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard how Dennis is doing in his battle with cancer?
Onjya Sipe's child is the unnamed one
ReplyDeleteOnjya sipe is my mother
DeleteShak El said...
ReplyDeleteOnjya Sipe's child is the unnamed one.
Yes Shak I did read that somewhere after I posted the article.
But wasn't Onjya a fake? Isn't she the one who wrote Desert Speaks? I swore I heard/read somewhere she was one of those who claim to have run with the Family but really never did?
My name is Shemyiah Sipe.. I'm Onjya Sipes daughter... She wasn't fake...
DeleteGoddamn Zezozoze was an ugly kid. Maybe just a bad photo- his eyes look airbrushed in like Zero's corpse in HS...
ReplyDeleteI wonder how fucked up Clem & Gypsy's kid is.
Looks like that first baby has a hitler mustach,or is that just dirt from sucking on Sadie's boob?
ReplyDeleteNo she wrote "Devil's Drop out". She is not fake. Tho her involvement with the post-murder manson circle was brief (only a few weeks). The book was interesting in that it should how the group continued to seek new members and how they brought them in and indoctrinated them.
ReplyDeletesnooproose said...
ReplyDeleteLooks like that first baby has a hitler mustach,or is that just dirt from sucking on Sadie's boob?
Those are scabs. Great mother's they were. Rotten teeth come later from sucking on Sadie's teets.
TY Shak El
ReplyDeletehippiekiller said...
ReplyDeleteGoddamn Zezozoze was an ugly kid. Maybe just a bad photo- his eyes look airbrushed in like Zero's corpse in HS...
I wonder how fucked up Clem & Gypsy's kid is.
He is a marine and doing well.
I don't think he knows who his real father is.
gypsy and her son are also close. hopefully he doesn't know clem. there is really no proof he's clems kid anyway.
ReplyDeleteDevil's Dropout is very expensive these days.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.com/Devils-Dropout-Manson-Follower-Christ/dp/0915134179
maybe sadie was steppin out and got pregnant by losapappa? remember ruth ann referred to him as the "negro" member of the Family.
ReplyDeletethe little girl playing in the water trough at spahn during hendrickson's "manson" and being touched inappropiately by clem, i always assumed was rice's daughter but the little girl in this picture looks so different is it the same girl?
ReplyDeleteI think the first life magazine cover/article with Charlie on the cover has a picture of Mary Brunner holding baby pooh bear-I dont have it here to post -trying to find it
ReplyDeletethe first two babies look totally different-are you sure the one with ouisch isnt dennis decarlo- cus if this pic was taken of ouisch after the arrests zezo was already taken from Sadie wasnt he?
ReplyDeleteI disagree that the baby in Pic#1 and Pic#2 are the same child. Different eyes and completely different mouth. That poor baby with the scabby stuff under his nose looks like he has impetigo. Living in those filthy circumstances with no running water must have been terrible for those kids. Probably the breastfeeding saved their lives, boosting their immune systems.
ReplyDeleteThe color photo with Clem holding the baby has always driven me crazy: what is that blacked out thing in the foreground---looks like someone censored the photo with black marker. And there is something poking out from the marker area on its right, and it looks like part of a skeleton (hand?)! What is that? Cappy's leg, also, has something weird about it. Why is it at that angle?
That leg is not someone else's, but it doesn't look attached to her. God! This photo bugs me!
toocrowdedinthishouse said... That poor baby with the scabby stuff under his nose looks like he has impetigo.
ReplyDeleteBy all accounts I've seen, Charlie really liked kids. I shudder to think what condition they'd have been in if he didn't like them.
toocrouded, what bugs me is Cappy wearing a doily on her head!
ReplyDeleteSoooo, none of you has ever had a toddler run along, and face-plant in the gravel?
ReplyDeleteYour kids must have been wrapped in cotton wool during their "use my face as a battering ram" years.
We have a lovely photo of the Amazing Raynbow, who is now a model, radio personality, and college student, when she was about two, when her entire face is a massive scab, likely from using it to break furniture. Kids DO that.
What do you think our ancestors did, in the days before running water and parents who hovered around sterilizing everything?
Well said
DeleteOver steralizing kids environment may be a cause of asthma and other autoimmune illnesses.
ReplyDeleteBlogger snooproose said...
ReplyDeleteLooks like that first baby has a hitler mustach,or is that just dirt from sucking on Sadie's boob?
Maybe the poor kid inherited a mustache from his mother.
A.C. Fisher Aldag said
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think our ancestors did, in the days before running water and parents who hovered around sterilizing everything?
I think a greater number of our ancestors died in infancy.
I agree with AC Fisher, it is curious to see how you scandalize with a picture
ReplyDeleteOrwhut, check here & click on the staff page:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thedoortempe.com/
Matt,
ReplyDeleteThanks. There's no mention of the child who I thought was helping Dennis in his ministry unless, Kathy Buchholz on staff at The Door, is his daughter Kathryn. She looks too young, to me. I'm also curious as to whether Dennis left Free Indeed and joined The Door or whether they're parts of the same organization.
I have a college friend who is a congregation member of The Door in Arizona. Can't get him to talk about Rice...
ReplyDeleteCool, Matt. Another of the six degrees of separation from Charles Manson.
ReplyDeleteBy the way. I'm signed in now and don't have to give an anti-spam word but other times I do, even when I'm sighed in. I can't figure it out.
I removed the human detector. We'll see how it goes.
ReplyDeleteThat explains it. I hope it works out well.
ReplyDeleteIt's awful that when a man dandles a child on his knee and gives her a gentle kiss, it's now called "inappropriate" . What has gone wrong? Just how many paedophiles are there, really?
ReplyDeleteWestern guys nowadays are terrified to be in a closed door room with a child. Let alone kiss one. Here in Hong Kong, you see guys snuggling and petting and hugging and kissing their beloved kids all the time. It's a very physical culture when it comes to family. Everyone is always arm-in-arm, and children are always holding hands, or encircled by arms or held on shoulders, all the time. Even teenagers walk with hands on dad's shoulder, or snuggled up to mum.
How many Western dads are distant from their kids, because they fear this dreadful "inappropriate" tag? Fear some neighbour reporting them? It seems just like other kinds of neighbourly snooping and self-righteously watching.
What Clem is doing looks totally innocent. He's rocking the little girl and affectionately kissing her.
Now, there may be more to it than that. Other reports claim he did molest that child. (Doubtless in the name of the same kind of liberation that led Sadie to fellate her infant). But from that clip, you could not and should not deduce that.
interesting, Fiona. Patty does agree with you that our culture has sexualized darned near everything to all of our detriment. Patty's brother in law is an elementary school teacher who has been instructed to not even touch kids on the shoulder any more. :(
ReplyDeletePatty does still get the creeps when she sees that video because of the look on Kathryn's face. Maybe she is sleepy, just waking up. Maybe. Patty would love to hear from her one day.
i find clem touching that child creepy. on another blog a family member called jenny has said she believes clem molested the child and that he slept in the same sleeping bag with her. next clem was arrested for exposing himself to children. i think it is better to error on the side of caution when it comes to child sex abuse.
ReplyDeleteWow really? You use Hong Kong the child sex slave capital of the world as your example? I now know why you do not understand how Americans find kid touchers dispictable and disgusting.
ReplyDeleteI do not see how anyone can watch RH documentary and see what clem did as 'normal'
A.C. Fisher Aldag said
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think our ancestors did, in the days before running water and parents who hovered around sterilizing everything?
Many many many, died at a early age from bad hygiene and diseases that can easily be controlled by washing
Could somebody please answer me this: What happened to Sandra Good's son? Did she raise him, or was he given up for adoption? Nothing was ever mentioned in the Squeaky Fromme book about him, even though Sandra & Squeaky were living together. Was he Manson's kid, because the videos I've seen of this baby, his face looks IDENTICAL to Manson's. I wonder what happened to him?
ReplyDeleteAnn, Sandy's son is a successful businessman. He is a good guy...
ReplyDeleteI was the 12 month old in the underground chicken coop, named Shemyiah Sipe.. I'm 42 now, with a wonderful husband, and a 2 1/2 year old little boy. I had some what of a hard life, but I'm doing great now!!!
ReplyDeleteShemyiah, can you elaborate a little more on your story? Who raised you?
ReplyDeleteHi Shemyiah, I was friends with your Mom in my teens. We went to the same bible study and also helped with a programme at San Bernadino JV. I was also friends with your Uncle Paul. So, I would say that I knew her before University from 1973-1977 and I believed every word she said. You were a beautiful little girl and so good to hear of your happiness.
ReplyDeleteRobyn
Hi Shemyia, I was friends with your Mom from about 1973-1977. We went to bible studies together as well as working on a christian program at San Bernadino JV. I also was friends with your Uncle Paul. I don't have any doubt that your Mom wasn't teling the truth. You were a beautiful little girl. Love to your Mom and Uncle Paul.
ReplyDeleteRobyn
Hi Robyn, please email me: matt@eviliz.com
ReplyDeleteI've seen quite a few pics of Michael Manson. ...as a baby....
ReplyDeleteI do agree with others comments in regard to baby number one and baby number 2 not being the same baby. They don't resemble each other in the least and don't even have the same hair.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the children being cared for, I believe the kids were very well taken care of because of the fact that you had numerous mothers and women of childbearing age in a communal setting watching over the children.
Does anyone have any idea what ever happened to baby Zezozose? Did he ever know who his mother was/where he was born? Did his adoptive parents? I tend to agree that the first two babies are not the same - which one is Zezozose? Maybe it's just because of the name, but I've always been curious about him.
ReplyDeleteelainerose, Zezo was Susan Atkins' son. He was adopted by a physician and his wife. Susan was aware pof his circumstances and his new name but I can't remember if they were acquainted after his adoption.
ReplyDeleteHey, thanks, Matt. Do you think Zezo himself was aware of who his mother was? I guess he'd be in his 40s now.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you post the question in today's post. That way everyone will see it and can respond. I'm not sure of the answer but I bet someone else will.
ReplyDelete