Thanks to Mr. P for the above article
Also to The Grump for his input.
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From the book: "These Canyons are Full of Ghosts: The Last of the Death Valley Prospectors" By Emmett Harder |
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Barker Ranch circa 1940 Pre- Family |
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| Post Family One thing comes to mind A.T.W.A |
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| Post Fire |
Charlie Manson and Paul Crockett. Both were Users of people.
ReplyDeleteThese two guys became Paul Watkin's guru mentors. Both are still alive. Pitifully after Watkins came down with treatable leukemia he was advised by Crockett to avoid traditional medical care and follow his guru cure. It was too late before Watkins realized that following Crockett's phony methods had wasted precious time which caused his death. Watkins spoke about Crockett's witch doctor methods and how he was ripping off unsuspecting lost souls by counseling them for $100 pr hour. Watkins found himself late in his short life and realized at the end that he had the answers within himself all the time and his mentors had misled and used him. He realized too late that his search for someone to follow was a destructive diversionary path that shortened his life. I miss ole Watkins. He was an interesting guy who led a fascinating life but was struck down in his prime by blood cancer.
The answers are always within one's self.
ReplyDeletePatty just likes typing "Wildebush."
ReplyDeleteWildebush
Wildebush
Wildebush
whoo hoo!
So is that the van that belonged to Juanita Wildebush behind them?
ReplyDeleteShe changed her last name to Wildebush because her real name was embrrassing to tell people.
ReplyDeleteCharlie had told Watkins to trade Juanita's van in at Las Vegas for a pickup. Watkins very quickly did this. He was a very capable guy handling business matters for both Crocket and Manson. He could get supplies using legal barter methods as easily as he could steal them. Sad that he described his young self as having an empty, hollow space inside his soul. He also said the other Family members felt this hollowness in their soul as well. The counterculture was not spriritually fulfilling thus it lasted only 3-4 years and was gone by 1970 though its negative effects linger still today.
MrPoirot said...
ReplyDeleteCharlie Manson and Paul Crockett. Both were Users of people.
That is NOT Paul Crockett. It is a miner companion of Emmett Harder named Carl Ruona.
Interesting read is "These Canyons are Full of Ghosts", by Emmett Harder. Nice guy, I met him at Barkers once. . 3 Chapters of Manson Death Valley stuff.
oooh thank you Grump - a new title for my sumemr reading list!
ReplyDeletePS: Mr. P said "She changed her last name to Wildebush because her real name was embrrassing to tell people."
So what was it before...Crazietwat? Nuttycooch? LOL Patty cracks herself up.
Thanks Grump! I really thought that was Crockett. Id seen that pic for years thinking it was Crockett.
ReplyDeleteNow I have a request. Can somebody stick up a pic of Crockett? I don't think Ive ever seen an actual foto of him.
BTW I have heard that Crockett is in Manson 73 but I can't find him. Is Crocket anywhere in Manson73?
ReplyDeleteMrPoirot said...
ReplyDeleteNow I have a request. Can somebody stick up a pic of Crockett? I don't think Ive ever seen an actual foto of him.
I'm sure someone here has one, but he is hard to find. His picture was in the 1st edition of Helter Skelter, but not in the later versions. It's the one of him, Brooks, and Little Paul by the Barker's mail box.
http://truthontatelabianca.com/topic/1859-ids-needed-in-brooks-pic/
ReplyDeleteThe guy on the far left is the same one in the pic Liz posted.
Is this Crockett on the left or Emmit Harder?
There's one in the Hendrickson book too :)
ReplyDeleteThat is Paul Crockett.
ReplyDeleteGrump would you say Carl Ruona and Paul Crockett are extremely similar in age, build, looks and height?
ReplyDeleteEmmett Harder is stockier than Ruona or Crockett.
MrPoirot - I'll have to read Emmetts book tonight and see what I come up with. It sure looks like Carl Ruona was an old man in'68. I know he came from Finland.
ReplyDeleteThere are a few video's of Emmett on You Tube. And his book is still available at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/These-Canyons-Are-Full-Ghosts/dp/0971359407
An interesting picture of Barker Ranch (circa 1940) here:
http://www.laweekly.com/2008-05-22/news/manson-clan-body-dig-underway/
BTW - Don't let the Col get you down. Personally, I believe in the Black Book/Frankie Carbo connection to the LaBianca's.
Charlie - "I asked him for the little black book"
Charlie - "I knew Frankie Carbo, Frankie Carbo knew Leno La Bianca"
Do some research on Frankie Carbo, then realize that Leno played the ponies. I think there is something there.
Feel free to disagree, all is well on Liz's blog.
There's a lot of people who believe alternate motives such as the buried bodies rumors/black book rumors and others. The trials lasted 9 years and none of the alternate motives were ever mentioned by a single witness. Squeaky never mentioned them to anyone in her trial for Pres Ford. Leslie had 3 trials and none of the alternate motives were mentioned. Bruce and Tex and Bobby and Clem had trials and no alternate motive was mentioned. As far as Leno gambling? Hell, everybody I know gambles. So what if Leno gambled. Who isn't in debt? The little black book is straight out of a Jimmy Cagney script. It's more and more common now on the internet for the Area51/Grassy Knoll crowd to create their own motives and conspiricies behind every historical event because they think their fiction is stranger than truth. The longer the Col blogs the sillier his theories get and the further from reality they get. The Col now has his own mafia that love his comic book theories. His Mafia worships him because he has become the Bernie Madoff of liars.
ReplyDeleteGrumpFromPahrump said...
ReplyDeleteMrPoirot - I'll have to read Emmetts book tonight and see what I come up with. It sure looks like Carl Ruona was an old man in'68. I know he came from Finland.
Mr Poirot replies:
Grump I found a pic I could enlarge. It looks like those are two different men as you say. Crockett and Ruona have different chins, facial lines and Ruona had greyer hair.
I think the reason no alternative motives have come up is that there is only one person who knows what it really is...
ReplyDeleteWhen you say "one thing comes to mind -- ATWA", um, no; one thing comes to mind, when the police raid a domicile, they destroy property deliberately and leave a huge mess.
ReplyDeletePatty has never seen that 1940s photo of the ranch - thanks to whoever found it!
ReplyDeleteDidn't photos of the destruction caused in the raid leek out to the press during the trial with the implication that the family lived in that type of squalor? The girls were very big on cooking, cleaning and sewing.
ReplyDeletePanamint Patty said...
ReplyDeleteoooh thank you Grump - a new title for my sumemr reading list!
PS: Mr. P said "She changed her last name to Wildebush because her real name was embrrassing to tell people."
So what was it before...Crazietwat? Nuttycooch? LOL Patty cracks herself up.
LMAO yo know- i was going to comment on that too but thought it inappropriate. but since Patty did..........SninkySnatch? BurlyBushe? StankASSCoochyCOO?
i am sure Patty and i could go on forever.
Hi BFF! Agreed that any bush at Barker is by definition a Burlebush! LOL. About the post raid pic: Patty agrees that it looks like what cops do to a crime scene when looking for evidence. I will never understand why, though, the investigators did not take all of the clothing out of the bus in case any of those rumors about dead kids in the desert were true... Whose clothes were they? Probably everyone's from Dennis Wilson's to Stephanie Schram's and everyone in between. Makes Patty wonder.
ReplyDeleteACFisherAldag said...
ReplyDeleteWhen you say "one thing comes to mind -- ATWA", um, no; one thing comes to mind, when the police raid a domicile, they destroy property deliberately and leave a huge mess.
First of all- I love me some AC
BUT we have VERY different opinions on certain things. don't get me wrong- i have heard the police made that mess and i have heard the Family left it.
i also have read in a police report the Family had inside their fridge
a plate of human feces. yes we can argue the police lied about that too.
I feel there is no arguing when it comes to ATWA - ALL the TONS of car bodies, car parts, drums of oils,antifreeze, brake fluid, metal gas cans,metal and glass food and drink cans, and what other things harmful to the environment the Family left behind.
as well as leaving buses packed with old clothes, vinyl records and full of fluids to rot away where they died.
and i am pretty sure they had just not gotten around to cleaning it up before they were arrested.
way back then Charlie was preaching about the ice caps melting, other environmentally harmful things, factory's release poison into the air(or was that just Sandara's spiel?)
and all his other hoopla WAY back when they were at the ranches.
Charlie sounds like a hypocrite to me. He loved Barker and Spahn so much- why not send his friends out there present day to clean up all that rusted junk?
Panamint Patty said...
ReplyDeletePatty has never seen that 1940s photo of the ranch - thanks to whoever found it!
i found it. i just used the info Grump mentioned. their is also a pic there of one of Barkers guest houses.
oops sorry my bad Grump. Mongo no read so good ;)
ReplyDeleteIt's supper time at the ranch. Sadie and Gypsy are in the kitchen.
ReplyDelete"What's for dinner?" asks Gyspy.
Sadie opens the fridge and pops her head inside.
"I dunno," replies Sadie, "same old shit."
Funneeeee.
ReplyDeleteAnyhoo. People did that in the 60s and 70s... left rusted car parts and junk in the back 40. Some of that stuff, I've been told, was there from long before the Family showed up. There weren't any scrap metal places or recyclers yet. If you wanted to clean up a site, you had to haul it to the dump and pay for it by the yard.
I'm currently doing that with my farm, finding new junk every year, and we've lived here 16 years. The people who lived here kept a nice house and clean barn, but like everyone else, they hauled crap out to the back end, and left it there. They thought it would just rot away, apparently. Nowadays we realize that oil, antifreeze and such don't just evaporate in the air or dissipate in the ground, and metal doesn't just rust away, it gets into the groundwater.
ACFisherAldag said:
ReplyDeleteThey thought it would just rot away, apparently. Nowadays we realize that oil, antifreeze and such don't just evaporate in the air or dissipate in the ground,
Mr Porot replies:
Good mention AC.
Antifreeze is second to plutonium on the poison scale. NEVER pour out antifreeze. Never let it drain into a gutter for it taste sweet to animals and they will drink it and die an agonizing death. Dogs actually are attracted to the taste of antifreeze. No plants will ever grow again where antifreeze is dumped.
ok some of the stuff was already there i will buy that. so instead of saying "looks like that old 1920 truck rusted over there is not
ReplyDeletedisintegrating like we though it would." they just pile more on.
charlie has had large amounts of money very often, he has said it himself.
Linda K stole $5,000.00. charlie has agreed she did and, gave the money to him.
why didn't King A.T.W.A -who WAS/IS all about the environment while fanning himself with Melton's pile of bills,take a look around and say
"geeze this place looks like a rusted old junk yard. old rusted cars,parts laying around since the 30's. our old bus, full of old clothes we wont wear and (probably) vinyl records.
(I'm shooting for stuff that wont disintegrate here people)
AND all those stolen cars, trucks,
and dune buggy bodies and parts just WAITIN for the cops to come and find them and bust us.
cops are always here nosing around.
plus we have dead Gary Hinman's vehicle right over there. that should go too."
"how abouttoday we only buy a 1/2
of pound of weed today instead of a whole pound. take from our stash,
a few sheets of acid, pass them out."
they don't pay for clothes-the girls get them with stolen credit cards. they don't pay for food, the do garbage runs. they don't pay for rent since part of that deal was keeping the place clean and fixing stuff. and this place with all the rusted crap does not look clean. good thing ole george is blind.
"we can get all the guys and girls together, drop some orange sunshine-start up a few of the trucks sitting around that run, load them up with all that junk, bust out a few stolen credit cards for gas and do a dump run?"
I am sure in 69' money
that $5,000.00 Linda boosted would cover the whole plan with some left for buck knives and lots of zu zu's. plus a nice chunk of change left over.
present day charlie makes a ton of money off his art work, crafts and spiders.(i want a spider dammit!)
how about Charlie calling up the person who holds that money and say- "Since i am so big into this A.T.W.A. stuff- how about dipping into that sox you keep my money in and hiring someone to clean up all the buses that have been leaking fluids,for 30+ years, the cans and bottles we left behind. big 100 rotting metal oil and gas drums."
you get it right??
A.T.W.A.
GrumpFromPahrump said...
ReplyDeleteTo Mr.P
BTW - Don't let the Col get you down.
Mr. P is one tough dude. don't you worry about him. but thanks for giving a shit. ;}~
GrumpFromPahrump said..
ReplyDeleteFeel free to disagree, all is well on Liz's blog.
right on brother, right on! LOL
adam said...
ReplyDeleteIt's supper time at the ranch. Sadie and Gypsy are in the kitchen.
"What's for dinner?" asks Gyspy.
Sadie opens the fridge and pops her head inside.
"I dunno," replies Sadie, "same old shit."
OR- the famous "shit on a shingle".
Evilliz said:
ReplyDeleteI am sure in 69' money
that $5,000.00 Linda boosted would cover the whole plan with some left for buck knives and lots of zu zu's. plus a nice chunk of change left over.
Mr Poirot replies:
In 1969 money $5000 was a years salary for most middle class Americans. Or: it was a months salary for a dozen middle class adults. Because of their rustic lifestyle I suspect the typical Family member needed approx $150-$200 per month
Charlie had to support 24 people. One of the books explains that this was too much responsibility for a nomadic bum like Charlie and this was one of the many stresses that led him into a mental breakdown in 1969.
I dunno about CA but a lot of the garbage problem here in MI was solved when the price of scrap metal went up. Suddenly, people were hauling truckloads of junk to metal dealers for cash.
ReplyDeleteI'm also told that much of the money went to pay a bunch of back taxes and back salaries for employees at the Ranch. George Spahn was not making payroll, and he was about to lose his property to taxes. Another young lady donated her trust fund, as well as money that was gotten from Kasabian.
ReplyDeleteI don't like Linda... but... wasn't that $5 child and spousal support? Here in MI, if my ol' man scores five G, it is MY money too... and if I get five large, it is HIS money, too. So even tho I think Linda is a skank, it wasn't stolen, if she was married... it was HER OWN money.
ACFisherAldag said...
ReplyDeleteI'm also told that much of the money went to pay a bunch of back taxes and back salaries for employees at the Ranch. George Spahn was not making payroll, and he was about to lose his property to taxes. Another young lady donated her trust fund, as well as money that was gotten from Kasabian.
I don't like Linda... but... wasn't that $5 child and spousal support? Here in MI, if my ol' man scores five G, it is MY money too... and if I get five large, it is HIS money, too. So even tho I think Linda is a skank, it wasn't stolen, if she was married... it was HER OWN money.
June 20, 2011 12:56 AM
Linda stole the $5,000.00 from her husband's friend Melton. It was not her hubby's loot at all.
How about the Xians who claim to own Spahn, and drive away visitors to the property, clean it up?
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, that's right, they have dominion over the Earth, so they can pollute it readily, and they don't have to worry about preserving this material realm, cuz they're all gonna float away to Heaven in the Rapture.
And YESH, the Xians really HAVE driven friends off the land, not just the parking lot. They are claiming the church owns the whole entire property, not just the parking lot. They say THEY own it, not the State as a park!
Wow, those Xians really must be slobs, eh? Look at all that trash on THEIR land!
Eviliz, in one of the Kasabian interviews, it was stated that she'd "stolen" that money from her "husband". I believe YOUR version, tho, cuz so many of the interviews have material that isn't true.
ReplyDeleteWhat the heck is a Xian?
ReplyDeletePanamint Patty said...
ReplyDeleteWhat the heck is a Xian?
I think it means "Christian"
as in "XMAS"
The Greek letter X is Chi, and the Chi-Rho, that thing that looks like a XP on the Pope's staff, means Christ.
ReplyDeleteXian is just shorthand for Christian. Some view it as kinda disrespectful, yet some Christians use that short version to signify themselves.
You're right, like XMas.
More useless trivia you'll prolly never use. If this is ever a question on Jeopardy, think of me.
ty AC.
ReplyDeletePatty was thinking that Xians must be some weird cult: she usually has cults on the mind, but moreso having just read up on The Process (book report coming soon).
Xians - damn. Now Patty feels like a kid who got told the facts of life when she REALLY wanted the cabbage patch story: she wanted aliens or spies or secret fraternities, but all she got was boring old Christians. ;)
None of us are blameless concerning misuse of resources. Christians are no more to blame than anyone else no are they blameless. There is a romantic notion I've heard my entire life that the indians were excellent conservers of nature but they are to blame as well. Custer writes in one book he wrote about while patrolling in the great plains that he would come upon groups of 50 dead buffalo with nothing missing except their tongues. Buffalo tongue was an indian delicasy. But I think humans have gotten better at protecting the environment. But with 5 billion people on earth we leave a pretty big mess even when we are at our best behavior.
ReplyDeleteBTW the word RAPTURE does not appear anywhere in the bible. Dunno where that word came from. I know that some christian churches refuse to use the word 'rapture' since it is not biblical.