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Friday, April 8, 2011
Another One Bites The Dust
Panamint Patty relays that Rudy Altobelli the owner of Cielo Dr. during the crimes died last week. He was eighty two years old. This information was found on The Colonel's blog. http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/
While on the plane coming back from England just a few days after he had learned of the murders at his rental house on Cielo Rudi had thought to himself that Charlie Manson may have something to do with the murders. Rudi had suspected Manson before anybody else.
Shak El said... I wonder why Rudi would have suspected CM?
April 9, 2011 4:18 PM
MrPoirot replies:
Rudi had met Charlie at Dennis Wilson's house and at Cielo. I'm sure Rudi knew Charlie was an ex-con. Also I think Rudi got bad vibes from Charlie. Rudi didn't followup much on Charlie as a suspect though. His suspicion of Charlie as a suspect apparently ended on that plane flight back to LA.
Mr Poirot... I have always wondered if either Dennis Wilson or Melcher suspected Charlie between the murders and his arrest. I seem to recall that CM had lashed out at both, didn't he give Melcher's assistant a bullet or something. At the very least they both knew that CM was volatile and that he had been to Cielo Drive. Is there any record of either of them speaking to the question of suspecting CM?
leary7 said... Mr Poirot... I have always wondered if either Dennis Wilson or Melcher suspected Charlie between the murders and his arrest. I seem to recall that CM had lashed out at both, didn't he give Melcher's assistant a bullet or something. At the very least they both knew that CM was volatile and that he had been to Cielo Drive. Is there any record of either of them speaking to the question of suspecting CM?
April 10, 2011 2:50 AM
MrPoirot replies:
I was curious how in the hell neither Melcher nor Wilson suspected Charlie. Seems impossible that they didn't immediately suspect the ex-con who had hung out at Cielo. They were more interested in their ruputations I guess. Both told Bug they didn't want to testify. Those two didn't come forward with anything.
Dennis Wilson refused to discuss Manson until the day he died. One can take the liberty of assuming that Wilson and Melcher had a very bad feeling when the murders went down, and you can bet - since they were the ones who originally spent time with Charlie, and encouraged him to an extent- they felt a tremendous amount of responsibility- and I am sure they wanted to keep as quiet and put as much distance between themselves and Manson/Manson people as they could possible get away with...
Well, if that is what they did SC then their self serving silence is partly to blame for all the murders after Cielo. Somehow I have trouble believing both scenarios. I can't believe they didn't suspect Charlie and I can't believe they knew and never spoke up.
I dont know that they knew for sure- but just like Abotelli had a hunch- they did too- and I am sure that they did everything they could to keep themselves as far removed as possible after it happened- and I have raed in several books D wilson did feel tremendous guilt for along time after.. he would get angry when, even friends, brought the subject up..
I think today- a grand jury would have forced them to talk about EVERYTHING they did know, and back then it seems it was o.k. to trade " cooperation" - for " keep my name as out of it as possible"...
People with money- get better lawyers, and they can make deals to share what they know, and keep there participation minimal- that has gone on forever, and will continue to do so...
Melcher and Wilson- should have felt some guilt in my estimation.. they could have been much more help than they were- and they both probably knew more than they told...
I think I'd be forever suspicious of a stranger who came up to me at my garage door, kneeled down and kissed my feet. Yet it was the 60s after all. Perhaps that was normal.
To tell the truth, there is nothing about this case that is believable. Nothing.
The fact is had Charlie not burned the road grader in Death Valley he'd probably still be living there.
Mr. Poirot- that may be true- but I think the walls were closing fast, and they authorities were aware of what was going on out there- the fire just made them act quicker than maybe they were moving prior...
The bigger issue is that nobody wanted to talk.. Wilson and Melcher were aware of the violence Charlie was capable of - and they were both victims of his threats... yet they wouldn't talk.. Even Crowe when shot- wouldn't point a finger.. Now it was never cool to be a narc- but when things get this extreme- you have to wonder why everyone clammed up? charlies own family members who were directly involved in some of the crimes talked more about the what went down than these guys would...
Which makes me wonder who thought they had more to loose?
I would give anything to have seen that look between Charlie and Patricia Krenwinkle at the Aug 16 raid when they were told they were being charged not with murder but with posession of stolen goods. They truly must have thought they were beyond any law that existed on earth.
Everyone they knew seemed to either be too stupid or too afraid to do anything to stop their crime spree.
Yes- and another thing that really stands out nowadays..
how many times they got busted- He was on parole for goodness sakes
I can name at least a half dozen times he was busted- and although on parole- and after awhile- they were at Spahn all the time- so they knew who he was trouble, he kept walking???
it boggles the mind...
people of the ilk that there was no motive- can certainly make an argument that if you let trouble like this fester for that long, and ignore all the lead up warning signs that are in front of you- and not stop the problem when you catch it early ( and often ).. something major was about to happen...
I cant disagree...
But then the conspiracy people will shout from the roof-tops that this is proof there was something underneath going on all along, and either way...
it is hard to explain how he managed to stay out for as long as he did...
True, that if they hadn't burned the loader they may have never been found out.
True also, that if the LAPD had released to the public that the words Healter Skelter were written in blood at the LaBianca's that many people would have immediately fingered CM to the police. Gregg Jackobsen for one...
Charlie's road grader arson crime while safely hidden in Death Valley is a phenomenom I never could understand. It was as if he couldn't stand being isolated from a society he claimed to hate so he committed an act that would bring society to him.
Greg Jacobson too had reasons to suspect the Manson Family. They were such an odd group yet nobody thought to suspect them. They were the most overtly unique crowd in all LA yet nobody seemed to percieve that as a clue. Jacobson should have suspected Manson because he had been privy to Manson's violent pontifications.
I think I remember reading that Charlie burned the Michigan Loader because he was sure that it had been put there specifically to annoy him, and him alone. This is the same grandiose thinking that had him believeing that the Beatles were tuned into HIS reality, rather than vice versa.
Supposedly he burned the loader because he thought they were tearing up the trails with it to stop him and and his dune buggies from running amok in the area...
If the road grader had been parked on Cielo Dr when Charlie burned it I have no doubt Charlie would have been arrested and then released. Fortunantly Charlie was arrested in Inyo County.
While on the plane coming back from England just a few days after he had learned of the murders at his rental house on Cielo Rudi had thought to himself that Charlie Manson may have something to do with the murders. Rudi had suspected Manson before anybody else.
ReplyDeletePanamint Patty relays, not reports, in this case. Thank you Colonel Scott. You have been missed.
ReplyDeletePanamint Patty said...
ReplyDeletePanamint Patty relays, not reports, in this case. Thank you Colonel Scott. You have been missed.
ok i fixed it. see why i need you?
especially for that upcoming "thing".
I wonder why Rudi would have suspected CM?
ReplyDeleteRudy was a private guy- but how much of the stories we hear about that place going on did he know?
ReplyDeleteShak El said...
ReplyDeleteI wonder why Rudi would have suspected CM?
April 9, 2011 4:18 PM
MrPoirot replies:
Rudi had met Charlie at Dennis Wilson's house and at Cielo. I'm sure Rudi knew Charlie was an ex-con. Also I think Rudi got bad vibes from Charlie. Rudi didn't followup much on Charlie as a suspect though. His suspicion of Charlie as a suspect apparently ended on that plane flight back to LA.
Mr Poirot...
ReplyDeleteI have always wondered if either Dennis Wilson or Melcher suspected Charlie between the murders and his arrest. I seem to recall that CM had lashed out at both, didn't he give Melcher's assistant a bullet or something. At the very least they both knew that CM was volatile and that he had been to Cielo Drive. Is there any record of either of them speaking to the question of suspecting CM?
leary7 said...
ReplyDeleteMr Poirot...
I have always wondered if either Dennis Wilson or Melcher suspected Charlie between the murders and his arrest. I seem to recall that CM had lashed out at both, didn't he give Melcher's assistant a bullet or something. At the very least they both knew that CM was volatile and that he had been to Cielo Drive. Is there any record of either of them speaking to the question of suspecting CM?
April 10, 2011 2:50 AM
MrPoirot replies:
I was curious how in the hell neither Melcher nor Wilson suspected Charlie. Seems impossible that they didn't immediately suspect the ex-con who had hung out at Cielo. They were more interested in their ruputations I guess. Both told Bug they didn't want to testify. Those two didn't come forward with anything.
Dennis Wilson refused to discuss Manson until the day he died. One can take the liberty of assuming that Wilson and Melcher had a very bad feeling when the murders went down, and you can bet - since they were the ones who originally spent time with Charlie, and encouraged him to an extent- they felt a tremendous amount of responsibility- and I am sure they wanted to keep as quiet and put as much distance between themselves and Manson/Manson people as they could possible get away with...
ReplyDeleteCan you blame them?
Well, if that is what they did SC then their self serving silence is partly to blame for all the murders after Cielo. Somehow I have trouble believing both scenarios. I can't believe they didn't suspect Charlie and I can't believe they knew and never spoke up.
ReplyDeleteI dont know that they knew for sure- but just like Abotelli had a hunch- they did too- and I am sure that they did everything they could to keep themselves as far removed as possible after it happened- and I have raed in several books D wilson did feel tremendous guilt for along time after.. he would get angry when, even friends, brought the subject up..
ReplyDeleteI think today- a grand jury would have forced them to talk about EVERYTHING they did know, and back then it seems it was o.k. to trade " cooperation" - for " keep my name as out of it as possible"...
People with money- get better lawyers, and they can make deals to share what they know, and keep there participation minimal- that has gone on forever, and will continue to do so...
Melcher and Wilson- should have felt some guilt in my estimation.. they could have been much more help than they were- and they both probably knew more than they told...
I think I'd be forever suspicious of a stranger who came up to me at my garage door, kneeled down and kissed my feet. Yet it was the 60s after all. Perhaps that was normal.
ReplyDeleteTo tell the truth, there is nothing about this case that is believable. Nothing.
The fact is had Charlie not burned the road grader in Death Valley he'd probably still be living there.
Mr. Poirot- that may be true- but I think the walls were closing fast, and they authorities were aware of what was going on out there- the fire just made them act quicker than maybe they were moving prior...
ReplyDeleteThe bigger issue is that nobody wanted to talk.. Wilson and Melcher were aware of the violence Charlie was capable of - and they were both victims of his threats... yet they wouldn't talk..
Even Crowe when shot- wouldn't point a finger.. Now it was never cool to be a narc- but when things get this extreme- you have to wonder why everyone clammed up? charlies own family members who were directly involved in some of the crimes talked more about the what went down than these guys would...
Which makes me wonder who thought they had more to loose?
I would give anything to have seen that look between Charlie and Patricia Krenwinkle at the Aug 16 raid when they were told they were being charged not with murder but with posession of stolen goods. They truly must have thought they were beyond any law that existed on earth.
ReplyDeleteEveryone they knew seemed to either be too stupid or too afraid to do anything to stop their crime spree.
Yes- and another thing that really stands out nowadays..
ReplyDeletehow many times they got busted- He was on parole for goodness sakes
I can name at least a half dozen times he was busted- and although on parole- and after awhile- they were at Spahn all the time- so they knew who he was trouble, he kept walking???
it boggles the mind...
people of the ilk that there was no motive- can certainly make an argument that if you let trouble like this fester for that long, and ignore all the lead up warning signs that are in front of you- and not stop the problem when you catch it early ( and often ).. something major was about to happen...
I cant disagree...
But then the conspiracy people will shout from the roof-tops that this is proof there was something underneath going on all along, and either way...
it is hard to explain how he managed to stay out for as long as he did...
True, that if they hadn't burned the loader they may have never been found out.
ReplyDeleteTrue also, that if the LAPD had released to the public that the words Healter Skelter were written in blood at the LaBianca's that many people would have immediately fingered CM to the police. Gregg Jackobsen for one...
Charlie's road grader arson crime while safely hidden in Death Valley is a phenomenom I never could understand. It was as if he couldn't stand being isolated from a society he claimed to hate so he committed an act that would bring society to him.
ReplyDeleteGreg Jacobson too had reasons to suspect the Manson Family. They were such an odd group yet nobody thought to suspect them. They were the most overtly unique crowd in all LA yet nobody seemed to percieve that as a clue. Jacobson should have suspected Manson because he had been privy to Manson's violent pontifications.
I think I remember reading that Charlie burned the Michigan Loader because he was sure that it had been put there specifically to annoy him, and him alone. This is the same grandiose thinking that had him believeing that the Beatles were tuned into HIS reality, rather than vice versa.
ReplyDeleteSupposedly he burned the loader because he thought they were tearing up the trails with it to stop him and and his dune buggies from running amok in the area...
ReplyDeleteIf the road grader had been parked on Cielo Dr when Charlie burned it I have no doubt Charlie would have been arrested and then released. Fortunantly Charlie was arrested in Inyo County.
ReplyDelete