Vern was the AWOL Marine who spent time at Spahn from July 1969 to September. He was "recaptured" by Uncle Sam and spent enough time in the brig for prosecutors to identify him as a witness and plan to use him during the trial. He escaped from the brig but was recaptured - again. He brashly bragged about killing 3 people and also said that he witnessed Manson and Grogan killing someone in the desert. He was a master of changing stories, it seems. Plumlee was convicted and sentenced to 5 years to life in an unrelated robbery stabbing.
After parole, he worked as a welder and raised a family.
I always wonder if there really are bodies still up there at Barker. Sadie said they'd never be found so I am sure they are not buried in the back yard and the whole Inyo Sherriff dig was doomed to fail. My money's on the victims if there were any getting dumped down a mine shaft. Of course, there is the long-haired, blonde hippie wearing overalls that was found in the dunes and never identified. I'd love to hear what Vern has to say today about it all...
ReplyDeleteI too wonder if and what is really up there???
ReplyDeleteDont know anything about the area so dont know how realistic it is that something would have been found by now..
Too many of them said that murders occurred in the desert for it to be baseless. Probably part of the reason that most of them prefer to live in anonymity and not write books. Some may have too much to lose since there's no statute of limitations on murder.
ReplyDeleteDamn. I still feel guilty about a squirrel I killed with my car five years ago...imagine having to take stuff like this to your grave...
ReplyDeleteOr every time there's a knock at the door. Is this when the other shoe drops?
ReplyDeleteIts hard to imagine that after seeing Clem walk for revealing such information- that none of the others would have tried to make there own deal..
ReplyDeleteunless they didn't know- or maybe it was cause the cops already were aware of Clems victim ???
If one of them said they knew locations of other bodies- would revealing this get them a deal to let them out for the last part of there life?
Or.. too little - too late
Maybe not for some of the families of potential victims- because obviously, there would have been no closure for them..
i don't think there are bodies buried there. i just don't think so.
ReplyDeleteDamn, look at Vern!
ReplyDeleteI think most of those people who say they saw this and that are all out for notoriety. If they killed someone, give more specifics.
:D
St. Circumstance said...
ReplyDeleteIts hard to imagine that after seeing Clem walk for revealing such information- that none of the others would have tried to make there own deal..
like i said earlier- i don't think there is anyone buried anywhere.
and what ST said makes sense.
who comes to mind is Bruce. he is itching to get out of prison. and
i think he was charlie's "right hand man". he was at Hinman and Shea. after Clem got his deal if there were bodies buried out there, Bruce would have known and i am sure- tried to make a deal.
Bruce was exactly who I had in mind when I was having those thoughts..
ReplyDeleteAnother FINE example of why I come here. You want to see it and can't find it anywhere else, Eviliz is the place!
ReplyDeleteVern looks like he should be hanging out in a rocking chair on a porch somewhere smokin' a corn-cob pipe.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Liz on both counts:
ReplyDelete1) If anyone knows of more bodies, it's Bruce.
2) Bruce would use a bargaining chip, if he had one.
eviliz said...
ReplyDeletei don't think there are bodies buried there. i just don't think so.
March 1, 2011 4:21 PM[end quote]
Paul Crockett, Juan Flynn, Brooks Posten, and Paul Watson would have known if anyone was killed in Death Valley but they never suggested that anyone was killed there. End of story.
@LSB
ReplyDeleteIf Bruce Davis knows about bodies, and he was involved, he's looking at a lethal injection. Same with the others; they'll never talk.
Prison sucks, but the big needle sucks worse!
@ Anonymous
ReplyDeleteI said: "Bruce would use a bargaining chip, if he had one".
I would assume, someone in Bruce's shoes, would be smart enough to consult a lawyer, to see if revealing further information would work in his favor... (i.e., how much of a "bargaining chip" this information would be at this point, to the authorities).
BTW, Circumstance already made your point earlier:
"If one of them said they knew locations of other bodies- would revealing this get them a deal to let them out for the last part of there life"..."Or.. too little - too late".
Shorty's situation was already public, and Clem had already been held accountable... so it was basically a win-win for Clem.
Certainly, revealing further bodies, could work to Bruce's detriment... but, if I was in his shoes - I'd still consult a lawyer.
'Course, Circumstance already made that point as well:
"or maybe it was cause the cops already were aware of Clems victim ???"
I have to wonder Anon, why your statement is "@" me, when I was seconding what Liz had said.
As Liz herself said...
"Bruce would have known and i am sure- tried to make a deal".
"Tried" anonymous...
That means, he would have looked into it (to see if it was advantageous to him).
Are you that much of a legal expert, that you know with absolute certainty, revealing further information would not be beneficial to Bruce?
Or, that the authorities may not be interested in further information?
Bottom line:
Sure revealing further information could be detrimental to Bruce - You're stating a concept that's so obvious, it's not even worthy of mention.
I don't think even Bruce is stupid enough to cut his own throat, without consulting a lawyer.
Do we really have to spell that out point-blank?
Evidently so...
Poirot...
ReplyDeleteI believe you meant Watkins.
It's a worthy point, as Paul was never "tight-lipped" with information.
It wasn't a matter of Watkins being tightlipped. Watkins feared Manson and fled from both Spahn and Barker Ranch. Anything that happened at Barker would be known to Crockett, Watkins, Flynn, Poston and Poston's gal but none of them ever said there were bodies buried up there. If there had been buried bodies one of the 5 I mentioned would have relayed it to police and that never happened. The media pushed the story along hoping it was true, but it wasn't. It was blown out of proportion and brought noteriety to Barker Ranch and caused the ranch to be burned and Golar Wash to be closed to motorized vehicles. As remote as Barkers was they nearly needed a traffic light on Golar Wash on weekends.
ReplyDeleteSomething went on out in the desert. None of them ever talked. Manson hints at more murders in his 80's and 90's interviews, but he's nuts. Matt's right, though. The people that know things moved on and stayed away from the spotlight.
ReplyDeleteA quote from Marlin Marynick's book; ' the murders were a direct result of all this wild interaction between the rich and famous and the infamous and unknown"
Me, I blame Tex Watson being on a speed bender for the whole thang. Manson is entertaining for the cameras. They sold the Helter Skelter to the masses because the masses like sensational stories with clearly defined good vs evil paremeters.
TomG said...
ReplyDeleteSomething went on out in the desert. None of them ever talked.
Quite a few of the girls said
Charlie got real mean once they hit the desert.
Panamint Patty said...
ReplyDeleteI always wonder if there really are bodies still up there at Barker. Sadie said they'd never be found so I am sure they are not buried in the back yard and the whole Inyo Sherriff dig was doomed to fail. [end quote]
Mr Poirot replies:
You mean Buster the Wonderdog? He didn't fail. He got a Milkbone for every grave he identified. In his mind the Barker Ranch search was worth every minute.
Poirot - LOLing
ReplyDeletepoor old Bruce! Being Charlie's 'right-hand man' even if true, and it's very debatable, shouldn't get you 40 years. Nor should giving Charlie a lift to Gary's: Bruce di essentially no more than pick up the gun in a melee, and as for Shorty, that really seems to have been Clem and Tex, with a scared Bruce trailing behind and giving one post-mortem slash, which is what I would have done, being around a nutter like Watson. 40 years! While Clem walks!
ReplyDeleteJustice, I don't think.
and what is the point of parole boards when the Governor can veto the decisions?
I don't get American justice at all. It all seems to be a game about who can stop evidence going before the court.
I saw a good one today:
The Justice System: All that's between you and prison: 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty...
I just dont get this for so many reasons: they point out her getting in trouble and paying no price is typical.. the judge says she did what she did intentionally and then reduces charges???
ReplyDeleteLOS ANGELES - The day unfolded all too familiarly for Lindsay Lohan: a court hearing, a jail sentence, a quick release.
The starlet appeared before a judge Friday for the fourth time in nearly a year and was sentenced to 120 days for violating her probation by taking a designer necklace.
Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Stephanie Sautner said she thought the actress had intentionally taken the $2,500 necklace from an upscale Venice store and shown poor judgment in not trying to return it until police became involved.
The judge reduced the actress' charge from felony grand theft to a misdemeanor and imposed the 120-day sentence.
Lohan's attorney Shawn Holley filed a notice of appeal right before court closed, clearing the way for the actress' release on bail.
Teaser ;
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, elsewhere in the world in those early months of 1965, a new ‘scene’ is just beginning to take shape in the city of Los Angeles. In a geographically and socially isolated community known as Laurel Canyon – a heavily wooded, rustic, serene, yet vaguely ominous slice of LA nestled in the hills that separate the Los Angeles basin from the San Fernando Valley – musicians, singers and songwriters suddenly begin to gather as though summoned there by some unseen Pied Piper. Within months, the ‘hippie/flower child’ movement will be given birth there, along with the new style of music that will provide the soundtrack for the tumultuous second half of the 1960s.
An uncanny number of rock music superstars will emerge from Laurel Canyon beginning in the mid-1960s and carrying through the decade of the 1970s. The first to drop an album will be The Byrds, whose biggest star will prove to be David Crosby. The band’s debut effort, “Mr. Tambourine Man,” will be released on the Summer Solstice of 1965. It will quickly be followed by releases from the John Phillips-led Mamas and the Papas (“If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears,” January 1966), Love with Arthur Lee (“Love,” May 1966), Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention (“Freak Out,” June 1966), Buffalo Springfield, featuring Stephen Stills and Neil Young (“Buffalo Springfield,” October 1966), and The Doors (“The Doors,” January 1967).
One of the earliest on the Laurel Canyon/Sunset Strip scene is Jim Morrison, the enigmatic lead singer of The Doors. Jim will quickly become one of the most iconic, controversial, critically acclaimed, and influential figures to take up residence in Laurel Canyon. Curiously enough though, the self-proclaimed “Lizard King” has another claim to fame as well, albeit one that none of his numerous chroniclers will feel is of much relevance to his career and possible untimely death: he is the son, as it turns out, of the aforementioned Admiral George Stephen Morrison.
And so it is that, even while the father is actively conspiring to fabricate an incident that will be used to massively accelerate an illegal war, the son is positioning himself to become an icon of the ‘hippie’/anti-war crowd. Nothing unusual about that, I suppose. It is, you know, a small world and all that. And it is not as if Jim Morrison’s story is in any way unique.
D
Whether there really are any bodies up there is anyone's guess and everyone's opinion.....but just as a bit of food for thought ¬> it took them years to find Shorty's body and they tried. It is doubtful if they would have found it if Steve Grogan hadn't shown them. He knew where it was. They did not.
ReplyDeleteIn some of these vast areas of land, there could be loads of bodies buried stretching back over 150 years. And few people currently alive would have the slightest inkling.