I Got the Forgotten Cielo Drive Artifact After Decades (Dearly Departed Tours with Scott Michaels)

 

Story Location Tour - Charles Manson and the residents of Hollywood Heights

Interesting history of the Franklin Gardens apartments (Crowe)

 

Inside the Manson Desert Hideout (The Last Days of Barker Ranch)

 

Mark Lindsay's Secret Cielo Drive Collection Exposed

 

CUTTING TO THE TRUTH. - Col's Book Review

As one of the foremost TLB researchers in the world, the Col feels it incumbent upon him to read everything published. Because ya never know. I really enjoyed the Jay Sebring documentary CUTTING TO THE TRUTH by Anthony DiMaria and reviewed it during the pandemic on this very blog. So I came to the new book JAY SEBRING : CUTTING TO THE TRUTH with very positive vibes.

Because of poor layout the book is a whopping 547 pages. I popped for the softcover version which was still a whopping $25.00. It's not a self published book but I have never heard of Genius Book Publishing just like they have never heard of layout software or editors. The book is credited to Marshall Terrill and Anthony DiMaria. It's fascinating that DiMaria is second.

Wikipedia credits Terrill as :Marshall Terrill (born December 17, 1963) is an American author and journalist, noted for numerous detailed biographies of Steve McQueen, Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, Billy Graham, Pete Maravich, and Jay Sebring. When I found this just now it crystallized the problem I had with the book, or one of the two. The book, much more than the movie, is trying to convince us of two things. First, that Jay should be mentioned in the same breath of many of the greats, as in the Wikipedia entry. And also he was a great guy who laid a lot of great looking women.

I've had the privilege of reading a screenplay about Shorty Shea that the great Deb S took part in creating. It is well written, informative and I enjoyed it A LOT- more than some scripts I've read before that got made. Bu the problem is that the most interesting thing that happened to Shorty Shea was that he was murdered by The Family. Don't take that as a slight- if you took my life and made it into a biopic the interest would wane after eight minutes. I'm not that interesting. Neither, I hate to break it to you, are you. That is why the best biopics focus on a period in time not someone's whole life. But a biographical book has to encompass the whole life of the subject. And though there is little doubt that Sebring likely would have had an interesting life, he was murdered in his mid 30s and is remembered, if at all, as a TLB victim.

Yes, he pioneered men's hair styling and that isn't nothing. DiMaria gives him heavy credit for that, but I am not sure that the history reflects this. Because he was good looking, albeit very short, he was able to parlay that into celebrity. Had he lived he was on his way to the fame and wealth the Vidal Sassoon eventually obtained, no doubt. But I mean, let's face it- Sharon Tate was a gorgeous woman, not the best actress. She would be the equivalent of Barbara Feldon today, once beautiful, a few roles, and a nice old lady forgotten for the most part and enjoying life. Sharon is remembered now only for having been slaughtered.

Background : First you should know that in 1985 I was in the USC Library Special collections looking at the clippings file on both Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski. I had been in LA 3 months, tops, but my TLB knowledge desired more. By sheer fate, as I was reviewing it a student came to ask to share it. He introduced himself as Sebring's nephew. I thought, "Fuck, welcome to Los Angeles." I shared the files, we talked a bit, I shared what I knew and noted that his Uncle, who he didn't know, was reported to be majority kinky so cognizant. This stayed with me because what are the chances? Subsequently, during an epic ten year run hosting the ONLY Official TLB Blog I called out persons who were obsessed with parole hearings, even going so far as to attend hearings that had nothing to do with their relatives. This applied mostly to the vile Orca Tate, but also to DiMaria (who, based on this book, got even worse on this subject). Some time maybe eight years ago I was getting a table at Musso and Frank's and DiMaria was there- while I braced for a confrontation he was nothing but lovely.

Also the agent Tony Seidl is thanked in the credits for setting the book up and I have worked with Tony in the past.

The GOOD: The writing style is breezy and informative. No one will ever need to do a Jay Sebring bio again- this cannot be topped, ever. So don't try.

The BAD: Instead of 24 pertinent photographs beautifully recreated in the middle of the book there are 72 pages of black and white photographs, one to a page, badly printed and often for no point- hey look, a portrait of Jim Morrison did you know Jay did his hair?

THE FACTS: as we have all learned, FACTS are the only thing to deal with in this case and I have questions with this book.

Page 318- I do not believe Terry Melcher produced the Mamas and the Papas ever

Page 325 exhibits a deep misunderstanding of Bugliosi's Helter Skelter Fiction. The copycat motive theory was to free Bobby. I never read that it also included framing the Black Panthers to divert from Crowe. They were happy framing ANYONE.

Page 335 - here and in other spots in the book the authors seem to think that in order to pump up Jay they have to denigrate Polanski. Remember, the goal here is that Jay was a legend (even called iconic as is his vanished salon) and he got screwed by being killed. This page really wants us to believe that Sharon was all but back with Jay- something Orca, DiMaria's bff, denies vehemently.

Page 341 a lawyer reveals that Sharon had drawn up divorce papers before her death. This is of course horse shit and even repeating that shows that the desperate Jay adulation is off the charts. This page also points out that Tom O'Neill is lying garbage as all researchers already know.

Page 353 (ref Page 325 above) is as confused about the Helter Skelter motive as earlier.

Page 372, while slagging O'Neill, always a good thing, is wildly offensive. First of all, the Col had cited that Steven Parent was gay as far back as the 1990s Yahoo groups. For his work the Col would be yelled at and questioned because homophobes have issues. But I've spoken to David Gerrold - his now somewhat famous boyfriend at the time. Steven was gay and was likely at Cielo to frolic with Garretson. AND THAT'S FINE. This book states that O'Neill was the first to call Parent's sexuality into question in 2024. But first of all, being gay isn't "into question". He was gay. Fuck you if you don't like that for some reason. And O'Neill, stealing from the research of his betters, was not even close to the first to reveal this.

Page 408- any time Barbara Hoyt is given credibility one's own credibility takes a hit.

Page 436 provided my favorite factual revelation - and then took it away! In a Parole Hearing that includes Orca and Di Maria, a "media observer" is permitted - Sophia Arguelles. The book then claims she is Michael Brunner's daughter/ Manson's granddaughter. Which is a POW moment. But then the text reveals that she is Daniel Arguelles' (an ALLEGED Manson son) daughter. Confused.

Page 457- DiMaria is very upset that Leslie is paroled. You know, after all the shit she did to his uncle that he never knew, she was freed. I mean I would not have freed her but calm down guy.

As indicated above there is a BIG movement in the book to establish that Jay fought for himself, Sharon and the others. SUPER SEBRING! And any chance we get to push that Jay and his Jeet Kune Do could have saved the day gets added over and over again. Of course this skips the logic that MAYBE if there were any chance to survive (very unlikely) a short dude punching and kicking people didn't help. MAYBE it made everyone more aggro!

On Page 467, mirroring O'Neill, the authors are very upset that Bugliosi won't engage to be interviewed - you know, the man who never met Jay Sebring.

Page 497 reprints a famous photo of Jay and Sharon at the pool in Cielo, the day or two before the carnage. It is credited to the DiMaria Family- which is nonsense. The photographer and thus the copyright is unknown. The film was stolen by an LAPD piece of shit cop and then stolen from him (bravo) decades later by Patti Tate's lover and noted TLB researcher Alisa Statman.

Page 186 wraps up a chapter that comes to the conclusion that Jay Sebring created Bruce Lee- okay then.

Page 150, again trying to pump up the dead (because why have a bio otherwise ?) we learn that the Unions and Mob and Licensing board DID NOT STOP trying to close the little shop on Fairfax down but SUPER JAY saved the day.

Barbara Luna, who I've met at autograph shows, was with Jay a long time and as google tells us, was a real looker and provides good tales. Cami Sebring, the first wife, google also tells us was gorgeous. But since SUPER JAY can do no wrong when she divorces him it takes a paragraph and no reasons are given- they stayed friends till the end. They just divorced because reasons.

I think the authors bring too much of their own prejudices to the story. Jay was into BDSM like so many are today, but DiMaria is offended because that makes him seem impotent so a lot of time is spent denying it, with no evidence provided. Jay was surely a player but wtf is he doing with an almost naked ex late at night, drunk, up in the hills if he isn't desperately clinging. Sebring accomplished a HELL of a lot in his short life and was on his way to accomplishing a LOT more. But he wasn't fucking Moses.

The tome is worth it for every serious researcher, just be advised as to the serious slant.. I don't know that Jay Sebring needed a 500+ page biography but we got one.

 

 

Melcher was not a Welcher

 

 

 

 One theory of the Cielo murders claims that Charlie chose that house to 'put the fear' into Terry Melcher for welching on a promised recording contract:

HS, pg315(paperback)

Much of the time at the Gresham Street house... was spent composing songs for Charlie's album. Charlie worked hard on these songs.   Manson was counting on Terry Melcher to produce this album. According to numerous Family members.  Terry had promised to come and listen to the songs one evening,   Melcher didn't show.  Manson, according to Poston and Watkins, never forgave Terry for this.  "Melcher's word was no good," he said angrily on a number of occasions.

 

But it appears that they were far friendlier to Terry than expected if you believe in that theory.

From Charlie's interview with Rolling Stone magazine of December 5th, 2013:

www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/charles-manson-today-the-final-confessions-of-a-psychopath-20131121
".. Melcher... apparently decided Manson wasn't a talent worth pursuing. Although Manson himself told everyone that a recording contract was imminent.
"Yeah, it was Terry Melcher's house, and he lied to everybody at the ranch, said he was gonna do stuff he didn't do. He got their hopes up, you dig? Terry was a spoiled brat that had seven automobiles and didn't have nothing to worry about. I'd cheated him in a card game and won a house. It was part card game, part con, all devil, heh heh. But I won it. He owed me. So, Terry Melcher was part of it. He did a lot of things that wasn't right. But, no one was mad at Terry Melcher,   Not really. He was just in somebody's mind, and when they went by there, it was a familiar place, and they went into a familiar place. ..."

Feb 25, 1985 - Charles Manson was interviewed at Vacaville Prison by KALX 90.7 Berkeley Radio When asked about Melcher, Manson said, “I like Terry. Terry’s a nice gentle person, he’s a peaceful person, he doesn’t lie, he’s treated me right. He’s, I would consider him a friend. But I think all this madness scared him. I think it scared him to think that I’m somebody that I’m not."

Manson In His Own Words by Nuel Emmons, published in 1986  pg148
"Melcher was all right and I had no bad feelings for him."

Doris Day, Her Own Story by A.E. Hotchner c. 1975  pg240
..I found out at one point that Manson knew I had moved to the Malibu beach house. ... But then why didn't he knock on the door, if he wanted to get in touch with me? None of it made much sense. Susan Atkins, one of the murderers, had told her attorney on tape, "The reason Charlie picked that house was to instill fear into Terry Melcher because Terry had given us his word on a few things and never came through with them." I have no idea to what she was referring. I made no representations to them about anything.

Death to Pigs, by Robert Hendrickson, c.2011  pg303
Watkins claimed Greg Jacobson promised that Terry would be there (at Gresham) to hear their music.
Watkins:  "Terry never said he would be there, Gregg said, Terry would be there."
Brooks:  "Gregg pulled the same one though, a couple of times. Gregg said he'd show up, but he(Melcher) didn't."

https://murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/thread/1287/terry-melcher-rolling-stone-1974
Tom Nolan, Rolling Stone, 9May1974   

When I was finished, their lawyer, Kanarek, said something like, ‘We want Mr. Melcher to know that the defendants have never borne him any ill will.’

Two Trips to Cielo

 

The official version of events says that the Cielo murders took place from around 12:20am to about 12:50am.  

Here are the witnesses that support that timeline:  

--At 1am Rudy Weber claims he saw Tex and the girls using the hose outside his house to wash up.  He even got the license plate # from the Ford they were driving.  "Mr. Weber stated he was guessing at the time"

--Neighbor Mrs Kott
she heard, “in close sequence", what sounded like three or four gunshots. They seemed to have come from the direction of the gate of 10050 and she later guessed it to be between 12:30-1AM.
HS, pg24  "She did not check the time but later guessed it be be between 12:30 and 1am."

--William Garretson's testimony that Parent left the guest house shortly after 12:15am.

--Both Susan & Linda stated that Charlie asked them what they were doing home so early

--HS, pg117
"Virginia also learned(from Atkins) that the Tate murders had taken place between midnight and one in the morning..."

--Seymour Kott, NBC interview:  heard nothing after midnight

-----------------------------------

But there are numerous witnesses that saw or heard somethiing after 1am

--Tim Ireland says his supervisor gave the time he came to him as 12.40 as he had looked at his watch ~ Ireland originally told the police it was 1.30am
 The police report notes: "Between 0100 and 0130 Mr. Ireland was awake, alert and watching the sleeping children. He heard a male voice from what seemed to him a long distance away to the north or northeast shout, 'Oh, God, no. Stop. Stop. Oh, God, no, don't'.

--Seymour Kott
LA Times Article, Aug 27, 1969
http://www.cielodrive.com/archive/tate-neighbor-heard-shots-screams-in-murder-house-about-2-in-morning/
  He heard shots and screams at "2 or 2:30am – no earlier,"
" I heard a loud shot, a woman’s scream, then another shot."

--Emmett Steele (9951 Beverly Grove Dr.) who was awakened by the barking of one of his hunting dogs. He estimated the time to be between 2 and 3am.

--14-year-old Carlos Gill,  who had a clear eye-view to the house and sound would travel right to his window who said it was 4:00 AM.
"At approximately 0400 hours he heard the sound of voices arguing. He believed it was three or four persons. The argument increased in volume and became more heated. It lasted approximately one minute and then subsided abruptly."   "Carlos, with an open window did not hear any gunshots between 1-1:30AM."

--Robert Bullington and Eric Karlson, two security patrol trained to mark the time who both said at 4:11am they heard three gunshots

--Unk 911 caller who reported "woman screaming" call from the same area, about 4am.   "I hope we don't have a murder. We just had a woman-screaming call in that area."

--www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a26932479/manson-family-murders-sharon-tate-death-explained-reactions/
--Richard Correll (director):
Sees Tex, another man, and two females driving near the crime scene at 3:30am.

--William Garretson also gave an account that supports the claim of gunshots after 1am:

From the trial transcripts:

MR. FITZGERALD: ... I am in possession of what purports to be a transcript of an interview with Mr. Garretson at 4:25 pm, on August 10th, 1969, where this witness was asked about the events that took place on August 8th and 9th. He stated in connection with questions about dogs barking that: “It was about 2 or 3 hours after he left,” referring to Steven Parent, “somewhere around there, that is when I looked out in the yard....” ... The importance of the dogs barking is that they may signal or herald the arrival on the scene of the persons who perpetrated the events.

But if there was a return visit, why not just admit that?  I suspect it was because it would have raised too many questions for the Bel Air Patrol, on how they could have missed the killers coming and going, twice.

The Private Investigators

 

There were a whole slew of private investigators doing work on the TLB case.

The Family Ed Sanders pg306
Mr. Peter Folger, Abigail Folger's father, according to numerous people involved, initiated an intense investigation into the matter, as did Roman Polanski who were assisted by several famous Los Angeles private investigators. ... In fact, at least ten private investigators in Los Angeles were used extensively throughout the investigation of the case, both by private parties and the district attorney.

newsblaze.com/entertainment/books/sharon-tate-a-life-by-ed-sanders-power-book-review_72226/
William Garretson’s attorney, Barry Tarlow, hired a private investigator to conduct an additional polygraph examination, hoping to get to the bottom of this survival mystery.

Here are some names:

labyrinth13.com/eBook-ROYF.pdf
Paul Krassner, writing for a 1999 edition of Scope magazine:
--When Hal Lipset, the renowned private investigator, informed me a few years ago that the Los Angeles Police Department seized pornographic films and videotapes found in Polanski's loft ,,,

--Excerpt from Sharon Tate - A Life by Ed Sanders
"Hatami told me he has no memory at all of Manson coming to the front door of Cielo Drive, but that the memory was suggested to him by an investigator named Reeve Whitson, who worked for both Col. Paul Tate and the prosecutor Vince Bugliosi."

[The Private Sector: Private Spies, Rent-a-Cops, and the Police Industrial Complex by George O'Toole c.1978 pg223

When the CIA first considered the very sensitive question of operating within the United States, someone must have pointed out that firms like Fidelity Reporting Service could offer ideal cover. Private detective agencies are licensed to snoop, and they provide a confidential service, routinely refusing to disclose their clients' identities. They could provide perfect camouflage for the CIA's domestic intelligence activities.]

--Ed Sanders and Paul Fitzgerald employed a private investigator(PI) named Larry Larsen.

--Scanlans, May 1970
"Michael McCowan was the investigator for the defense in the Panther case, as well as in the Charles Manson case..."

--Witness to Evil, by George Bishop c.1971  pg144
Hughes...employed an investigator, long-haired William Swinney, whose wife took to breast-feeding their infant baby while sitting on the floor of the corridor outside the courtroom, right beside the men's lavatories.

Did Leno have his own PI, hired to look into the break-ins at the Waverly house?

--www.mansonblog.com/2023/08/54-years-of-remembering-victims.html (comments section)
Louise(Leno's daughter) said...
As far as the burglaries, for example, I recall those instances on several occasions where Dad and Rose talked about them. They never had those issues on Woking Way. All happened at Waverly, there were many times it happened, and different things happened--rug cuttings once, moving things around, and the actual thefts/burglaries. Dad told us he hired a detective but I never saw him. All mysteries.

--truthontatelabianca.com/threads/maybe-something-new-maybe-not.5232/    poster 'martine'
What many do not know is that from very early on in their relationship, Peter Sr. had all of Gibbie's and Voytek's comings and goings monitored. Peter Sr. had an investigative and security team which could put the CIA and FBI to shame. In fact, both of these teams were made up of former members of these institutes and of the Secret Service as well as other high-ranking retired military men.

--Some details about PJ Tate's own private investigation:

Restless Souls, by Alisa Statman

pg73
PJ to Helder: "...I'm confident that my network of connections can accomplish in one day what will take your men a week."

pg74
PJ: I turned off the television. There were three other men in the family room, all friends from the US Department of Defense, all skilled investigators. After the murders, Guy was the first to offer his assistance. As an FBI agent, he'd spent twenty of his forty-nine years traveling the globe...
(The men start discussing plans to investigate Roman, One of the men--"Jake"--watches Roman being polygraphed by Lt. Deemer)

Thus 'Jake' is close enough to the LAPD to get access to the polygraph room.

Unfortunately whatever they found out is totally private and there has been no leaks(other than Larson) in the decades since. 

TLB: Crossing the Color LIne

 

Little mentioned. Tip-toed around by all. Better watch what you say....

 

 

Though when you think about it, the question of race permeates this case from top to bottom.

Maybe it was baked in, from the beginning:

--Helter Skelter, Vince Bugliosi, pg555
"Father: unknown. He is alleged to have been a colored cook by the name of Scott, with whom the boy's mother had been promiscuous at the time of pregnancy."


--Or start with the Helter Skelter Theory itself. The apocalyptic race war, black vs white. It would kick off when the black militants/panthers/muslims went to the rich whites living in the hills, and slaughtering them. The pissed-off white people would then go down to the black ghetto and slaughter all the unaware Uncle Toms, while the black muslims were in hiding. After the mass murder of the blacks, the muslims would come forth and cry "Look what you done to my brothers!" Causing the whites to erupt in civil war, whites against whites, until they had slaughtered each other. Whereupon the black muslims would emerge, kill all the remaining whites, and then emerge victorious in the racial war. Except Charlie and Family were hiding out in the Bottomless Pit for 40 years, after which the blacks would recognize his racial superiority and hand power back over to whitey.

Jess Bravin's Squeaky: the life and times of Lynette Alice Fromme
people.virginia.edu/~sfr/enam481/groupd/BIO.HTM
...the Black Muslim movement particularly interested Manson during his incarceration.

In fact, the whole idea of an apocalyptic race war came straight to Charlie from the Black Muslims.

 

 

Box 46 vol32 Watkins pg13

"..Charlie said it, that the Negro would--was going to clean up the mess that the white man made, which would be this entire society."

 

-----------------

--And then there's the evidence that the killers deliberately sought to cast blame on the Black Panthers at the Hinman, Tate, and LaBianca crime scenes:

www.mansonblog.com/search/label/Mary%20Brunner
When Bobby was stopped by the highway patrol in San Luis Obispo, he told the officer that he had bought the (Hinman)car from a "negro" for $200. Later on, during the interrogation, he then said that "negroes" had attacked Gary.

Box14 vol3087 Caballero testimony pg22of73
"She(Atkins) told me that Charlie Manson had wanted to bring Helter Skelter, and it wasn't happening fast enough, and the use of the word "pigs" was for the purpose of making them think that there were Negroes committing the crimes, because the Panthers and people like that are the ones that used the name "pig" to mean the establishment, and this was the whole purpose of it."

Box 21 vol8020 pg17of298
Kay: "...he(Watson) told Dr. Frank and Dr. Saurez that black people were supposed to be blamed for these murders."


----------------

You wouldn't know about it from reading Bugs' book, but blacks were in fact prime suspects from the outset:


--Coroner, by Thomas T. Noguchi and Joseph DiMona, c. 1983

pg129
..a word had been scrawled in blood: "Pig."
"What do you think that means?" I (Coroner Noguchi) asked the lieutenant.*
"I don't know," he said. "The blacks call the cops 'pig'--but none of the victims were cops."
*Probably LAPD Lt. Robert Helder

pg131
Criminals heavily into drug traffic were often black, and "pig," a word they might have used, had been scrawled in blood on the front door of the house.

pg139
The word "PIG" at the Tate house might have been written by a black drug dealer, as the LAPD believed.


Restless Souls by Brie Tate c.2012 pg73
PJ Tate: "Many speculated that the word PIG left in blood at Sharon's house was a calling card from the revolutionary party the Black Panthers."

Interview with Roman Polanski:
www.cielodrive.com/archive/a-tragic-trip-to-the-house-on-the-hill/
He heard the Hollywood gossip: that the killers were devil-worshippers, that it was a Mau-Mau type slaughter.

Knock Wood by Candice Bergen, c.1984 pg202
Los Angeles was in shock. ... Speculation spread about the mysterious murders and who the killers might be. Were they drug dealers or black militants?

dated August 14th, 1969
www.cielodrive.com/archive/add-guard-units-in-area-of-murders/
The series of sadistic murders has spawned a flurry of rumors in the greater Hollywood area as to “who done it.” These rumors, ranging from “black militants on a white blood-letting spree” to “the Mafia,” ....
--------------------

The black militant theory was initially reported in the media. For a short period of time anyway before it disappeared.


'The Sharon Tate Murders' by Peter Maas
From The Ladies’ Home Journal, April 1970 Edition
"One of the first police theories was that black-power militants, out to terrorize the white community, were responsible for the killings."

The Family, pg350
While they were at the ranch near Olancha(2nd week of Aug), Tex went into town and returned with a paper that accused "Mau Mau devil worshippers" of the (TLB)murders.

www.cielodrive.com/stephanie-schram-statement-12-04-69.php
STEPHANIE SCHRAM: "...the news said something about these people being Mau Mau type people."


-------------------


--Did the Black Panthers visit the Spahn Ranch? Why did Bugliosi ignore this episode in HS?

Gleason Documents
www.mansonblog.com/.../the-gleason-report-august... pg2of7
Officer Leigh stated he heard that the Black Panthers were at the ranch recently, probably July 26, 1969, and reportedly took pictures of the entire area.

Knox Documents
wvw.mansonblog.com/First-Spahn-Raid.pdf pg3of12
Judy Green..at Green Acres Ranch... north of Spahn Ranch off Iverson Lane, ...stated she had been threatened by numerous negro militants regarding burning her out because she reported them to the Fire Department... This observation occurred approximately July 19, 1969.


www.facebook.com/groups/1588416148120066/?notif_id=1618370352326809&notif_t=group_invited_to_group&ref=notif (comment by Paul Hart)
"... police ..visited Spahn Ranch on July 29, 1969 (just a little over a week before the TLB killings). Manson told the cops that he was expecting an attack by the Black Panthers because black men had already come to the ranch to start trouble. He also said the ranch had become an armed camp in preparation for an attack by the Panthers."

www.mansonblog.com/2017_11_06_archive.html
Diane Lake: “... I witnessed a very angry-looking African American man confronting Charlie one day. This was not something that happened often, and I later heard that Charlie assumed he was a member of the Black Panthers. ..."

murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/thread/1040/life-charles-manson-chapter-18
PAUL WATKINS, My Life With Charles Manson - Chapter 18
"Last week some black dudes come here looking for Charlie… he says he’s going to cut them up.” "
(about July 25th or 26th of 1969)


[Keep in mind that just a day after the alleged visit by the BPs to Spahn, BB is marking the walls of the Hinman murder scene with the bloody pawprint, with the specific intention of casting blame on the Panthers.]

Or did Spahn Ranch visit the Black Panthers?

--www.cielodrive.com/updates/leslie-van-houten-interviewed-by-marvin-part/
16:00 minute mark
MISS VAN HOUTEN: Well, it seemed like after we knew what was going to come down we tried talking to leaders, you know, black leaders, and we saw that they were stalling.
And it was almost as though we had to make the first move for it to continue to develop, to get bigger so that it would happen the because the black man loves us so much that he would be our slave and do everything we said, let us beat him and mistreat him for so many years that he almost doesn’t want to do what he has to do, but he sees that he has to do it.
And so it was up to us to start it.



Others:

--xdell.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html
Ed Butler, propagated an op-ed piece in August 1969 titled “Did Hate Kill Tate,” in which he blamed the deaths on the Black Panthers for the crimes. ...Butler had previously recorded Lee Oswald’s declaration for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, an organization in which he was the only member. ...
Mae(Brussell) ... believed that in the months before the public had a face to go with the murders, speculation such as Butler’s tried to condition the public to accept the arrest and conviction of innocent blacks... .


--murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/thread/385/
preston-guillory-deputy-sheriff
"My contention is this--the reason Manson was left on the street was because our department thought that he was going to attack the Black Panthers. We were getting intelligence briefings that Manson was anti-black and he had supposedly killed a Black Panther, the body of which could not be found, and the department thought that he was going to launch an attack on the Black Panthers."

-- Box 12b pg137of358
Nov 30, 1969 news magazine article by C.Robert Jennings
"A private investigator noticed a Tom Bradley sticker on Miss Folger's Firebird and brayed: "It's typical of the modus operandi of black militants." "

[What would a 'private investigator' be doing amongst all the reporters standing outside the front gate of Cielo? Was this guy some kind of shill, to plant the seeds for a "blame the Panthers" theory?]


--In LAPD Lt. Deemer's list of Family associates, compiled in Nov. '69, Bernard Crow(e) "Member of the Black Panthers" is listed.








Bugliosi touched on the subject, but then quickly dismisses the possibility:

Helter Skelter, pg93
Most(of the phoned-in tips) had come in following the release of Garretson, the callers blaming the murders on everyone from the Black Power movement to the Polish Secret Service, their sources imagination, hearsay, even Sharon herself--returned during a seance.

[In other words, if you thought the black militants might be involved, that was no better than saying you got your info from a 'seance.'
I would dearly like to have heard recordings of those phoned-in tips!]



The most puzzling reaction to the murders came from the black community themselves:

By the time the main TLB trial commenced in the summer of 1970, everybody knew that the killers wanted to blame the murders on black militants, to further Charlie's goal of an all-out race war. Now logically, this should have been a great propaganda coup for the black militant side, as they should have pointed out--long and loud--that this was just another example of how the white man was trying to blame the black people for his own crimes.

But instead there was total silence from the black community. Absolutely nothing from the news archives of black newspapers, nothing in any books, no statements or quotes at the time from any Black Panther, Black Muslim, or any black politicians, black ministers, or other civil rights leaders(and remains true to this day, as far as I can tell). Contrast this with a visible black protest presence at Van Houten's retrial seven years later:

The Long Prison Journey of Leslie Van Houten: Life Beyond the Cult by Karlene Faith c.2001 pg102 At LVH's second trial--1977
During the testimony about Helter Skelter and the portended race war, many people of African heritage showed up. Some would wince whenever the prosecutor would use the word nigger in reference to Manson's racism.

So why the silence during the TLB trial? Did somebody on high order that the link by downplayed? To ease racial tensions? Or to prevent anybody from pulling on that thread too much, out of fear a deeper connection would be discovered?



Can someone explain this?

July 21st, 1970 news article
www.cielodrive.com/archive/tate-case-jury-complete-defense-calls-it-tragedy/
Hughes disputed that Manson was anti-black, saying that while he served as Manson’s attorney the defendant was “always well liked by blacks at the county jail and, in fact, the Muslim prisoners protected him.”

Weird commonalities between Spahn and Cielo

 Weird commonalities between the Mansonoids and the victims at Cielo Dr.

--Esalen

Charlie had been by Esalen at least two or three times. Dianne Lake and Lynette had been there too with Charlie.

Sharon Tate, Abigail Folger, and Rudy Altobelli had also been guests there.


--Civil rights do-gooders

Abigail Folger had done social work down in the ghetto in the spring of '69, and several civil rights placards were found in the bedroom she occupied at Cielo. 

Box14 vol3076 pg137of302
(Sandra) Good was in something called the Black Students Tutorial Program... she knew black militants at San Francisco State


--Military Deserters
 

Box 12b pg186of358
LA Times article Aug 10, 1969
"She(Garretson's mom) said he(Garretson) told of entertaining young friends in his caretaker's quarters including ... an AWOL Marine later caught and sent to the brig."

Manson had his own AWOL Marines in the person of Family associates Vern Plumlee and Robert Russell


--Black Panthers

The Family thought Charlie had shot a Black Panther, and the plan was to blame the crime on the Panthers.

Restless Souls by Brie Tate c.2012 pg73
PJ: "Many speculated that the word PIG left in blood at Sharon's house was a calling card from the revolutionary party the Black Panthers."

Folger had her own link to the Panthers:

Restless Souls pg72
PJ surveils houseboats in San Marin(the Bay Area) as part of his own investigation in mid Sept. of 1969. A car he surveils "belonged to a high-ranking Black Panther... Even more interesting, the investigators link him to Abigail Folger's social work."


--Drugs

Drug use was widespread within the Family, of course.

Sebring was dealing at the retail level and Frykowski, at least, was using drugs heavily at times while at Cielo.

Use of Paranoia-inducing Stimulants:  Cocaine at Cielo, Meth at Spahn.

--Pedophilia

It is well known that both Charlie and Roman liked their young loves:

Patricia Krenwinkel 2016 Parole Hearing Transcript
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER LAM: what do you think of Manson today?
INMATE KRENWINKEL: ...he's a pedophile, he slept with girls that were 12 years old at the ranch, 13 years old, 14 years old, 15-year-old.

The Andy Warhol Diaries by Andy Warhol, pg110, entry of Feb, 1978
...(Movie Director)Stan Dragoti who was there said that he used to live next door to Roman in Hollywood and that Roman actually did date eleven-year olds.

And Jay too:
sensationalsharontate.blogspot.com/2010/03/rare-french-sharon-tate-article.html
Sharon on Jay Sebring "I called him the other day to find out how he was doing. He told me that now he was going out with a 15 year old girl."


--Hippies

The Family were identified as Hippies numerous times before and after the arrests for TLB

And Roman liked to refer to Sharon as his perfect 'hippie' wife.


--Witches
 

Box 30 pg79of738
"All the "guys" and appellant Manson called the girls "witches." "

RESTLESS SOULS by Brie Tate
PJ: "Finally, by the summer of 1965, Ransohoff cast Sharon opposite Diavid Niven and Kim Novak in the film 13(released as Eye of the Devil). The plot centered on the famous grape harvests of France, but with a twist, an ancient Wicca sect requires a blood sacrifice to save the harvest.
Sharon left London three weeks before filming began... to prepare for her role as the cult's high priestess. She spent ..afternoons with technical advisors who taught her the customs of black magic"
 

Box 12b pg166of358 LA Times article, Aug 17, 1969
"Abigail Folger... became increasingly fascinated with the study of black magic." ... "But Frokowsy and Miss Folger were involved with strange people. She was interested in witch-craft, Black Masses, that sort of thing...."


--Home video porn projects

Roman of course did his own filming at home, even his and Sharon's intimate moments.

And it is strongly suspected that Charlie did the same within the Family. With a little help from Charlene Cafritz and others

--Surveillance

It is well known that the Spahn Ranch was under surveillance by the cops before and after TLB.

"Born to Kill" video 2012
Hoyt at Spahn : "Charlie had Family members up here on the hill watching the cops watch us... so we were all watching each other. It was all fun..."

Chaos, by Tom O'Neill, pg200
On Doris Tate: "Like her husband, she'd conducted her own investigation through the years, becoming convinced that the Cielo house was under surveillance by some type of law enforcement at the time of the murders."


--Performing Artists

Both Spahn and Cielo Dr. were full of people associated with show biz, of one form or another/ See here:
https://murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/thread/1347/performing-artists-tlb-case


------------------------------------

Is there something to this?  I suspect there is.  Now you may think these are just some odd coincidences between Spahn and Cielo, but how many of these commonalities do you see between Spahn and Waverly Drive? None of them.*

Was the counterculture on the low end(Spahn) chosen to attack the counterculture on the high end(Cielo)?  Demonizing the hippies while putting the fear into the Hollywood liberals?   Killing two birds with one stone?

*Though there is some evidence that Waverly Dr. was also under surveillance.